Ringing Forums

The way the learning is happening is holding people back. — Martyn Bristow

I think you are completely right.

Currently, most teaching is usually done by the small percentage of people with high natural aptitude and who learned so long ago they can't remember learning. As such, teaching is geared to people who are the same, so learners are asked to jump straight from PH by-the-numbers to PB, and to simultaneously pick up ropesight, ringing by place, remembering a method and dodging. That still works for the small percentage who could always learn that way, but it does not work for people who have the potential to ring at a more advanced level, but who can't get there in one huge bound. It's not as if there aren't lots of resources out there for a more gradual approach, but many ringers are very resistant to change. If we want to increase the numbers of people ringing at a good standard we need to make continued progress more accessible rather than just recruiting more people who don't get much beyond PH.

The other side of the coin is the learners themselves. For some of them, no matter how much it's explained that you can't ring methods using a fixed sequence of bell numbers, they simply won't put in the effort to learn to ring by place. Even if they've claimed to have learned a methods, it is by bell number. Yet there's still "When we ring our first QP..." The blunt truth is that they won't, ever. Trying to push those learners beyond by-bell-number is pointless, and intensely frustrating experience for teachers. Better to accept they've decided to limit their progress and work on improving their skills at that level.

The problem is that graphite paste tends to get everywhere. The surface of our bells have been affected by pollution (mill town), in the past they'd have been black leaded, nowadays to get the same finish bellhangers use blackboard paint, which is what is on ours.

that's exactly what happened to the one above, the slider was ground down to about half it's thickness. I have put a thin layer of hard wax on the new ones (a quick rub with a candle) which doesn't collect any grit, but I'm not sure it made any appreciable difference.

• BBC, from 1952 but I don't seem to be able to hear the audio on it
• Lots of BBC ones here, but no dates

Mind you, I think some of them are best left unlistened to :grimace:

• Seven bells, poorly rung. St. Michael's parish church, Mytholmroyd.
• Church Bells: Outside St. Chad's Parish Church, Rochdale.

stays that are so strong they don't break and defeat the idea that the stay is a 'weakest link' to prevent damage to other parts of the installation — Robin Shipp

Here's an example of what happens if you use a tropical hardwood stay; its continual
pounding on the slider turned it into shredded wheat. And the liberal coating of grease on the runner board when mixed with stone dust from the steeple didn't help either.

I think your first one is going to be hard to top to be honest, I don't know of anyone who wants to cock things up.

Some more suggestions:

• I will not shout, it only makes things even worse
• I will dispense at least as much encouragement and praise as I do criticism
• I will not look down on those who are less accomplished than I am

most likely what would happen is the plastic would bend and jump over the slider, and the bell would go over anyway. It's the continued rotation of the bell that's violent, not the stay breaking, as anyone who has been unfortunate enough to make "the last tap" on an already cracked stay will tell you.

As anyone who has rung on sprung steel stays will attest, the flexibility makes setting the bell feel very odd, I think plastic would be similar. Plus the tendency of plastic to gradually deform under load means it would be unsafe to ever leave bells with plastic stays rung up.

I don't understand what you think the benefits over over ash would be.

Here's the effect on a slider of a combination of the wrong material being used for a stay (tropical hardwood) and smearing everything with grease, which mixed with stone dust coming down from the steeple:

because recycled plastic is unsuitable for the job. It sags under load (recycled plastic benches often have steel reinforcement in them) and it tends to bend rather than snap cleanly. Ash is eco-friendly and if not subject to abuse, can last for centuries.

One tip I was given which sounds odd but worked for me is to actively put the tail end into your right hand using your left hand - your left hand knows where the tail end is as it's got hold of it! It helped to stop me fishing around randomly with my right hand, which may be why your fingers are going through the loop.

Any organisation that wants to perpetuate itself needs to be recruiting constantly, I hope that’s not a revelation. — Alan C

You'd think so, wouldn't you? But the "demographic deficit" that's now causing so many problems for ringing seems to show that it isn't obvious, unfortunately.

I would also argue that before embarking on another national PR and recruitment campaign, we first need to carry out an internal PR campaign to make sure that any influx of new recruits can be handled properly. It's interesting that ART has received around 2,000 RFK enquiries in recent months, and although the number of fresh enquiries has slowed right down, there are now a significant number coming back to ART asking if there is somewhere else where they can be taught to ring. They are keen to learn but only making very slow progress at the tower where they are learning. — Roger Booth

Well, you certainly don't need to argue as far as I'm concerned, I think you are absolutely right! Your comments about struggling to keep progressing exactly mirrors my experience when I started - the issue is not a new one. Getting people through the door is easy in comparison to keeping them coming back. That needs internal PR and coordination to be done first, not after we have a queue.

There's a tower in the association who has taken on 10 new ringers as part of RFTK. I appreciate the enthusiasm, but how are they going to deliver a quality experience, how are the learners going to get the amount of rope time they need to keep progressing, what's the drop out rate going to be, and what's that number of new people going to do to the dynamics of the existing band?

We've deliberately not gone "all in" recruiting, including not recruiting for RFTK because we realised we didn't have the ability to cope with a big influx of learners. Instead we've concentrated on steady organic growth via people who really, really want to learn. A very keen adult learner who started a year go has rapidly caught up with the rest of the band (we are mainly CC & simple methods) because we concentrated on getting her up to speed as quickly as we could and she's now a "core" member. We are doing the same with the 10 & 12 year olds who started recently (not as part RFTK), again the plan is to give them the best possible learning experience so they keep coming. And I've had two more people ask today during our tower open day, although we didn't say anything about recruitment during the day.

Learning to ring is a big investment in time on all sides, and in the case of teaching, investment of a scarce resource. From Ringing 2030:

• "The pipeline needs strengthening."
• "We need a steady supply of people wanting to learn."

Yes, and yes!

I wonder if terrarium heaters would be an alternative to old fashioned incandescent bulbs, which are getting difficult to find?

yep, completely on the same page :-)

we once offered taster sessions — John Harrison

Taster sessions where they have a go for (say) 30 mins are one thing, but RftK is something else entirely as the intent is to train people to ring for an important national event. I'm not interested in doing that unless there's a strong commitment from people to stay on afterwards, preferably backed by some sort of financial incentive to do so.

As I said, if someone turns up and just wants to RftK and go no further then I'll turn them away, no matter what their age.

As it happens, I will hopefully have two 12 year olds coming for the first time tomorrow, both of whom expressed an interest which had nothing to do with RftK and I'm going to do my damnedest to retain them. I also have two adults turning up, I'll have to find out what their intentions are.

If people just want something for their "bucket list" then I'd consider it if they paid the going rate for such things, and if they weren't blocking someone who wanted to take up ringing seriously. Based on other "experience" offerings, the going rate would be north of £250.

All the talk about a shortage of ringers and needing more to Ring for the King probably hasn't helped either — John Harrison

I have wondered if the long term effect of that pitch is positive or negative. Yes it clearly has been bringing people in, but how many will stick at it, and how much of our limited teaching resources will be burned with no long term return?

I think we need to make it very clear to people from the start that learning to ring requires regular attendance and a long term commitment. Personally, if I get people who turn up because they just want to RftK, I'll turn them away. Which is the call I'll be making tomorrow when 4 people turn up for the first time.

All quite impressive stuff, I think! — Nigel Goodship

Not particularly, unless you think robo-plagarism is impressive. For example, a very quick search reveals that a lot of it is lifted from here, with some light rephrasing:

• Stress relief: The rhythmic motion of bell ringing can be meditative and soothing, making it a great way to relieve stress and tension.
• Improved focus and concentration: Bell ringing requires concentration and focus in order to keep time and execute the proper techniques. This can help improve focus and concentration in other areas of life.
• Increased confidence: Learning a new skill, such as bell ringing, can boost confidence and self-esteem.
• Socialization: Bell ringing is often done in groups, which can be a great way to socialize and make new friends.

If there's anything impressive it's the accuracy of the search targetting and the ability to present the results in a readable way. But there's no insight or understanding, it's only as good as its training data - and that has come from humans.

So the leaner generations of ringers have to work through the learning curve of more advanced ringing with less support and greater risk that it might go wrong and this means bands advance at a slower pace. — Lucy Chandhial

I think some generations of ringers aren't just "lean", they are completely absent. Ringing is suffering the consequences of decades of complacency around recruitment and it's going to be difficult to recover from that.

It needs leading from the association level, as my branch isn’t even ringing quarter peals. — Martyn Bristow

Don't get your hopes up, associations are just a collection of branches, it's the same people and mindset.

Martyn, I don't think associations are very good at this. It's best to organise things yourself if you can. It's helpful if the branch is organising surprise practices but why not try to get that "critical" mass together yourself. Ringing doesn't have to be under the auspices of the branch or association. — Phillip George

I've lost count of how many times I've seen that suggested and it's completely unrealistic. There are few ringers in my area at my level or just above, then there's a huge "hole", then a small number of "black zone" ringers (see my comment above). And the numbers at each of those groups is falling. How are people to get "critical mass" when increasingly there simply aren't enough ringers to do so?

while a motivated individual may be able to make his/her own opportunities, that can't be done in a vacuum — John Harrison

Quite.

Martyn, I agree, of course. Have you canvassed your local branch on this. Part of their role is to help ringers at all levels. — Phillip George

Many of them seem to have lost sight of that and are (literally) just Old Boys clubs.

Umm, the bong is in the wrong place. It's as the rope is going up, not down.

I have a learner who is struggling with dropping the last coil, I often tell them "Relax!" anyway, but I'll make sure so emphasise it at this point in the raise - good tip.

Their handling is good enough that they can complete the raise and set the bell one-handed without dropping the last coil, but I've told them that's not really a good enough excuse! :lol: