Ringing Forums

I would also argue that before embarking on another national PR and recruitment campaign, we first need to carry out an internal PR campaign to make sure that any influx of new recruits can be handled properly. It's interesting that ART has received around 2,000 RFK enquiries in recent months, and although the number of fresh enquiries has slowed right down, there are now a significant number coming back to ART asking if there is somewhere else where they can be taught to ring. They are keen to learn but only making very slow progress at the tower where they are learning. — Roger Booth

Well, you certainly don't need to argue as far as I'm concerned, I think you are absolutely right! Your comments about struggling to keep progressing exactly mirrors my experience when I started - the issue is not a new one. Getting people through the door is easy in comparison to keeping them coming back. That needs internal PR and coordination to be done first, not after we have a queue.

There's a tower in the association who has taken on 10 new ringers as part of RFTK. I appreciate the enthusiasm, but how are they going to deliver a quality experience, how are the learners going to get the amount of rope time they need to keep progressing, what's the drop out rate going to be, and what's that number of new people going to do to the dynamics of the existing band?

We've deliberately not gone "all in" recruiting, including not recruiting for RFTK because we realised we didn't have the ability to cope with a big influx of learners. Instead we've concentrated on steady organic growth via people who really, really want to learn. A very keen adult learner who started a year go has rapidly caught up with the rest of the band (we are mainly CC & simple methods) because we concentrated on getting her up to speed as quickly as we could and she's now a "core" member. We are doing the same with the 10 & 12 year olds who started recently (not as part RFTK), again the plan is to give them the best possible learning experience so they keep coming. And I've had two more people ask today during our tower open day, although we didn't say anything about recruitment during the day.

Learning to ring is a big investment in time on all sides, and in the case of teaching, investment of a scarce resource. From Ringing 2030:

• "The pipeline needs strengthening."
• "We need a steady supply of people wanting to learn."

Yes, and yes!

I wonder if terrarium heaters would be an alternative to old fashioned incandescent bulbs, which are getting difficult to find?

yep, completely on the same page :-)

we once offered taster sessions — John Harrison

Taster sessions where they have a go for (say) 30 mins are one thing, but RftK is something else entirely as the intent is to train people to ring for an important national event. I'm not interested in doing that unless there's a strong commitment from people to stay on afterwards, preferably backed by some sort of financial incentive to do so.

As I said, if someone turns up and just wants to RftK and go no further then I'll turn them away, no matter what their age.

As it happens, I will hopefully have two 12 year olds coming for the first time tomorrow, both of whom expressed an interest which had nothing to do with RftK and I'm going to do my damnedest to retain them. I also have two adults turning up, I'll have to find out what their intentions are.

If people just want something for their "bucket list" then I'd consider it if they paid the going rate for such things, and if they weren't blocking someone who wanted to take up ringing seriously. Based on other "experience" offerings, the going rate would be north of £250.

All the talk about a shortage of ringers and needing more to Ring for the King probably hasn't helped either — John Harrison

I have wondered if the long term effect of that pitch is positive or negative. Yes it clearly has been bringing people in, but how many will stick at it, and how much of our limited teaching resources will be burned with no long term return?

I think we need to make it very clear to people from the start that learning to ring requires regular attendance and a long term commitment. Personally, if I get people who turn up because they just want to RftK, I'll turn them away. Which is the call I'll be making tomorrow when 4 people turn up for the first time.

All quite impressive stuff, I think! — Nigel Goodship

Not particularly, unless you think robo-plagarism is impressive. For example, a very quick search reveals that a lot of it is lifted from here, with some light rephrasing:

• Stress relief: The rhythmic motion of bell ringing can be meditative and soothing, making it a great way to relieve stress and tension.
• Improved focus and concentration: Bell ringing requires concentration and focus in order to keep time and execute the proper techniques. This can help improve focus and concentration in other areas of life.
• Increased confidence: Learning a new skill, such as bell ringing, can boost confidence and self-esteem.
• Socialization: Bell ringing is often done in groups, which can be a great way to socialize and make new friends.

If there's anything impressive it's the accuracy of the search targetting and the ability to present the results in a readable way. But there's no insight or understanding, it's only as good as its training data - and that has come from humans.

So the leaner generations of ringers have to work through the learning curve of more advanced ringing with less support and greater risk that it might go wrong and this means bands advance at a slower pace. — Lucy Chandhial

I think some generations of ringers aren't just "lean", they are completely absent. Ringing is suffering the consequences of decades of complacency around recruitment and it's going to be difficult to recover from that.

It needs leading from the association level, as my branch isn’t even ringing quarter peals. — Martyn Bristow

Don't get your hopes up, associations are just a collection of branches, it's the same people and mindset.

Martyn, I don't think associations are very good at this. It's best to organise things yourself if you can. It's helpful if the branch is organising surprise practices but why not try to get that "critical" mass together yourself. Ringing doesn't have to be under the auspices of the branch or association. — Phillip George

I've lost count of how many times I've seen that suggested and it's completely unrealistic. There are few ringers in my area at my level or just above, then there's a huge "hole", then a small number of "black zone" ringers (see my comment above). And the numbers at each of those groups is falling. How are people to get "critical mass" when increasingly there simply aren't enough ringers to do so?

while a motivated individual may be able to make his/her own opportunities, that can't be done in a vacuum — John Harrison

Quite.

Martyn, I agree, of course. Have you canvassed your local branch on this. Part of their role is to help ringers at all levels. — Phillip George

Many of them seem to have lost sight of that and are (literally) just Old Boys clubs.

Umm, the bong is in the wrong place. It's as the rope is going up, not down.

I have a learner who is struggling with dropping the last coil, I often tell them "Relax!" anyway, but I'll make sure so emphasise it at this point in the raise - good tip.

Their handling is good enough that they can complete the raise and set the bell one-handed without dropping the last coil, but I've told them that's not really a good enough excuse! :lol:

I think for practices at this level to work they have to be focused rather than general, and have to have experienced ringers specifically invited to go to them. We gave up general practices in the St Martin's Guild some time ago, and we now only have practices which are for specific purposes or for specific people, and the helpers are invited. A practice would not go ahead if there were insufficient experienced helpers. It is quite common to have very experienced ringers at such practices because they know they will be of value. — Simon Linford

I think it's difficult to stress just how important that is, I don't go to "general" branch practices as they are of little use to anybody, be they neophyte or wizard.

However even focused practices need careful management to avoid the same problems. Recently two of the associations round here have both set up their own Surprise Major/Minor practices. Unfortunately they both quickly became a waste of time if you weren't a Major ringer, as all the people trying to learn Minor ended up being rammed together into the same touches, with predictable consequences. I quickly stopped going to those as well.

So, targeted practices are a must, but they need to be well organised ones.

When we went to the HLF "How to write your bid" session, they made it clear to us that if we put "We don't need contingency, we have everything covered" in our bid it would result in it being rejected. And they were right, we used it all - and them some. Nobody's fault, until we started to take everything apart we didn't find some pretty significant issues.

I may be telling you something you already know, but don't forget the "VAT hole". Suppliers will charge you VAT and although you'll be able to claim it back, there will be a delay and in the meantime you'll have to cover the difference.

have we really moved so far away from the original purpose — Mary Jones

You could make a good case that we are moving back closer to the original purpose because if you go back beyond the Victorian era, in many places bells were rung primarily for secular purposes. "Bells are just for services" was very much an Oxford Movement thing.

https://funwithbells.com/gareth-davies/

We followed the Heritage Lottery guidance:

A contingency is only used to pay for unexpected costs required to deliver your project. The total contingency figure may be up to 10% of the total costs of the project, unless you have a particularly complex capital project where a higher level may be required.

The figure we used was around 7%. But if you don't have any contingency at all then I wouldn't sign it off either - sorry.

Indeed. I was a participant in the last AI "revolution". I think "Deja Vu" best sums it up...

If this was a nautical environment, rotten old hemp ropes would be going straight in the skip :wink:

I was concerned about that but no, they didn't. And it was only a temporary expedient to keep the bell going until we got new bellropes.

my "favourite" bit of bellrope splicing was having to splice a right-hand laid top end onto a left-land laid bottom end... :scream:

The key skill is striking, which is a combination of physical bell control, accurate listening and good teamwork. — Rosalind Martin

Yes, and I'm sure the best ringers consider all of those to be a "work in progress" and never stop striving to improve them. I think how they do that are skills that could be transferred to less rarefied levels of ringing. Rather than focusing teaching Method X or Y, perhaps teaching "How to improve your ringing" is more important?

And the people who are best at that are.... (around here) the Peal Ringers. — Rosalind Martin

There are no peal ringers around here.

So John, if you are offered a rope in a peal and you are fit enough to do it, I would encourage you to say yes! — Rosalind Martin

I can't ever see that happening to be honest - even QP opportunities are infrequent and I've had quite enough after 45 mins anyway - the physical side isn't an issue, it's a mixture of boredom and not wanting to stuff it up as it get close to the end :lol: And as a late starter I don't think I'll realistically progress much beyond Minor ringing anyway.

The best and most challenging ringing I do is in peals, because most of the best ringers I ring with also ring peals for the same reason. — Simon Linford

The top level of peal ringing that you describe is impressive and it would be sad to see it become even more niche. Although I think it gets a publicity that's disproportionate to the number of participants, perhaps that's no bad thing as it is aspirational in the same way that the top level of any activity is.

that ringing is not putting much back (generally) — Simon Linford

I'm fortunate to ring regularly with people who's technical standard I am unlikely to ever approach, but what I've gained most from them is mindset and approach - perhaps that's something that can "be put back"? I see a lot of people at my level struggling to make progress and I think a big part of it is because of that?