Ringing Forums

PS. Sorry that probably came across as patronising. My experience included getting stuck against the glass ceiling of Surprise Major for about 5 years. I had to solve 4 problems:
- inadequate bell handling and hence poor striking
- lack of awareness of what position I was in at all times
- complete lack of ability to "see" blue lines in my mind's eye (and therefore inability to memorise them).
- because of my age, a snail's pace of transforming rope time into mastery. I had to turn a monthly opportunity to ring Surprise Major into a weekly one.

These 4 issues were diagnosed by various expert masters and rectified by relevant training and a HUGE amount of homeworkon my part. (Particularly to overcome my poor retention of blue lines.

Oliver, your situation sounds very frustrating.
You are unusually fortunate to be in a tower where cambridge major is regularly rung, I wouldn’t be in a hurry to change tower.
2 suggestions:

- Aim to ring *well* every time you catch hold. If you are only being asked to ring rounds then try to ring them to perfection. Ask a good ringer whom you trust to give you regular feedback on your striking.

- Ask your trusted good ringer what you should be working on. Maybe Cambridge isn't the ideal goal for this year?

Once you have found (or set up) a practice which includes your target methods, you may find it helpful to put in a lot of homework before each session. Have you tried:
- writing out the blue line of the plain course, starting with any bell.
- use android apps like blueline or methodology to "write" out the blue line and get an error count as you go.
- Use Abel (windows) to "ring" plain touches, touches and quarter peals. If you use the "moving ringers" option, it may help you to strengthen your rope sight, and enables you to do things that are impossible to do in the real world, like slowing right down to ring a difficult phrase, and repeatedly ringing the same phrase until you get it right. Abel will give you a score and you should be able to judge whether or not you are are ready to catch hold in the real world and try something.
Obviously Abel doesn't help with bell handling, but it does help with listening skills, and checking you really do know a blue line.

Thanks John.

2 issues have been raised in this thread - local coordination to make best use of the existing skills and enthusiasm, and developing new recruits as effectively as possible. I think Roger's District is probably completely typical, that so many ringers would rather do their own thing than aim for something less parochial. This has also played out locally. It isn't just new recruits that have struggled for ropes - I'm not good enough to be involved in my own band's (12 bell) peal, but I put the word out and am delighted to be included in a local 6-bell peal, and quarter, for another band. Some sort of "ringers' bank" for special occasions would be brilliant, I would definitely sign up. After all, one's competence is pretty easily judged by a quick glance at Bellboard!

" I do feel rather guilty as I creep out of the door after we've finished ringing. I suspect I may not be alone in that."

The trick is to rush off to the next tower. Once you have notched up 2 Sunday rings, the guilt evaporates beautifully.

"And as a late starter I don't think I'll realistically progress much beyond Minor ringing anyway.
" ... "A lot of people at my level struggling to make progress... "


I have come to believe it is a misconception to see progress in terms of which methods one can ring/score. Being good at ringing is not really about ringing impossibly difficult blue lines, or even engaging with blue lines at all. It is about creating a fluent, gorgeous rhythm with a ring of bells. I see people struggling to progress but it seems to me that they are struggling with the wrong issues. The key skill is striking, which is a combination of physical bell control, accurate listening and good teamwork. Working on these skills, like mastering any musical instrument, is a combination of practice and getting and implementing excellent feedback. I am (honestly) happy and proud to ring beautifully struck call changes. And the people who are best at that are.... (around here) the Peal Ringers.

"I'd love to hear what the benefits are, other than bragging rights and masochism?"

When I asked a similar question in about 2013, I was told very simply, that it would take my ringing to the next level. I rang my first 3 peals in 2015 and they definitely helped me to progress. Talk to the sort of ringer who can ring a decent repertoire without any mistakes, and you are probably talking to a peal ringer. Building the sort of mental and physical fitness required to ring a peal (or many peals) is very good discipline for a ringer, just as training for marathons is good for amateur runners.
So yes, the decline in Peal ringing will probably cause a significant decline in the number of ringers who are very good. It takes 10,000 hours to make a good musician and I would suggest it is no different with ringing. Getting 3 hours in one go is a pretty good way of inching towards those elusive higher levels.
Is it the same as ringing 4 quarters in one day? No, it's different. A marathon is different from 4 sprints.
So John, if you are offered a rope in a peal and you are fit enough to do it, I would encourage you to say yes!

Hear Hear. Good ringing is an inspiration to listen to.

If you have the chance to treble to a plain method on 6 in the tower first, that will enable you to get used to managing ropesight on 6 before you have to worry about putting in a lot of dodges. It's quite a big jump to try to do both at the same time. The other ringers will be something easier too so they may not get so shouty if you go wrong!
Meanwhile, if you want to press ahead, and you have a suitable computer, have you downloaded ABEL yet? If you put it in "moving ringers" mode, then the ropesight is a pretty good simulation of what you will see in the tower. You can slow the ringing right down and watch which bells pass you, and this may help you to see clearly what it going on. The great thing about ABEL is you can ring whatever you want, as slowly as you like, and nobody will shout!

"It's OK doing a survey, but you then need to turn it into action."
Good point. We had a plan for change, and we did the survey largely to gather proper feedback as to whether the majority of members would welcome the changes proposed. They did, so the changes were implemented and well received.

These are the questions our district asked in 2014. All done on paper, then typed into Excel.
https://candsbellringers.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/bellringers-questionnaire-part-1.xlsx

https://candsbellringers.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/bellringers-questionnaire-part-2.xlsx

The comclusions are here: https://candsbellringers.wordpress.com/questionnaire/

"I think the Median ringer overall can ring Bob Minor - nothing more" Simon Linford

Our district did a survey a decade ago and our median ringer was just learning their second method (either plain Bob doubles or Grandsire doubles. Having learned the other one first). I think the full report has just been lost as the guild website has been revamped.

With respect to encouraging participation, remembering John Harrison's excellent regular coverage of FirstPeal2015 in the Ringing World, perhaps a monthly update in RW of which areas of the country/world have responded, might engage local associations and help to motivate the towers.

Thanks for all these answers, all throw light on the question and I am very intrigued by the concept of memorising the grid, and DRJA's description of what they visualise as they ring. Definitely a skill to aspire to!

How long do you give someone...?

It sounds as if your rule of thumb is 10 weeks, based on what has previously happened at the School. That sounds like a sensible limit. Perhaps the question should be "under what circumstances would you give someone an extended Level 1 course?". Perhaps if there is an obvious reason such as a physical limitation which could be expected to prolong each phase? If it is a relatively bog-standard adult learner, then why not give the place to someone else?

There are other visual aids - for a learner getting to grips with their first method, it might be helpful to get the treble ringer to wear a red top. This isn't a "cheat" or a distraction - it is an aid that simply encourages the learner to pay particular attention to the treble. It would be particularly useful when ringing an unfamiliar set of bells.

Thank you Andrew. Missing dodges with the course and after bell was something that had not struck me before, but it is just the sort of helpful flag that I seem to need.

Hi John, I have always been after ultra-simple recipes.... but I am resigned to the need to actually learn methods properly these days (pencil. paper. study the place notation. etc). It's just that when I stand up in the tower and there are bells coming at me (albeit in a very logical order, in Yorkshire), it's nice to have something to fall back on when my mind goes dead!

Hi Oliver,
That sounds really frustrating! It's not unusual to find down dodges harder than up dodges. Can you do them OK in the plain course? If so, how do you know what to do?

WhatsApp works very well for informal news sharing, including reminders about District events. It is a lot less intrusive/addictive than Facebook. Posters are also still displayed in towers.