Ringing Forums

we get people ringing Rs & CCs with the band as soon as possible — John de Overa

How soon? Before they can ring steadily and hold to a rhythm?

they then tend to freak out if they can't see bells — John de Overa

That tends to confirm that they have been conditioned to rely on ‘seeing who to follow’ and then making a last minute action just after they do so, which undermines any sense of rhythm they might have acquired. And when they fail to look at the right rope, or it’s not there, they have no means’s of knowing where to place their next blows, even approximately.

it's an incorrect assertion anyway. Abel (and I believe all the other simulator packages) support a "moving ringers" display, — John de Overa

You don’t have to turn it on, and when I started using simulators to teach I didn’t have a screen, let alone pictures of ringers.
For initial teaching I never do turn on visuals because my aim, as stated previously, is to help the learner develop confidence in using their rhythm and listening skills before they are exposed to the visual element, which tends to dominate and crowd them out.

But I think visuals do have their place, — John de Overa

Agreed vision has its place. Ropesight is a most valuable skill for understanding what is happening around you.
Ironically the focus on following the rope in front, which many people teach and learners tend to adopt if thrown in at the deep end without already having developed rhythm an listening, inhibits the development of effective ropesight because narrowing the vision onto individual ropes makes it hard to see the overall pattern.

on a bell with a tied Clapper. You ring a bell whilst Abel simulates the other bells. At first this is very difficult to do, because you are ringing from sound alone, without seeing the position of other ropes. — Brian Plummer

I think that is more true of people who have already rung with other people and become dependent on seeing other ropes. I get learners ringing with the simulator on their own before the try to ring with other ringers, and it doesn’t seem to cause a great problem.
Doing that let’s them develop confidence in their rhythm and listening in a controlled environment before they have to cope with the additional task of making sense of lots of ropes, and the pressure of ringing with lots of other people.
IMHO ringing simulators are grossly under utilised. They are cheaper to acquire, and easier to use than when I first rang with one over 45 years ago.

tune ringing may be an anathema to those change ringers steeped in our Victorian culture, — Roger Booth

Current ringing culture certainly inherits some features from the Victorians, notably service ringing and territorial societies, but that hardly applies to change ringing. The Victorians promoted it but it began a couple of centuries before them

not many that have gone beyond just trying a cafe at the back of the nave — Simon Linford

We have that, following recent restoration to make the space more suitable for community use. We also hire the church for a lot of concerts and other events.
Wokingham Methodist church also extended its buildings to form the Bradbury Centre, of which the church proper is just a part, and used for some events.
Adelaide Baptist church in Glasgow used to run a B&B in its buildings, which I used for many years, and other things. The B&B stopped several years ago but I don’t know why.

at each practice people write their names in the attendance book. We’ve done that for years, I suspect well before all safeguarding came along.
Sometimes we also write down what was rung.
That’s the easy bit. Totting up the number at each event is easy too s we can compare over the years. When we were thinking about the best time to for Saturday practices it helped to see whether morning, afternoon or evening got better attendance. (There was no pattern, all had high and lows.)
The analysis by individual took quite a bit of work to transcribe the information into a spreadsheet. I first did it to compare pre and post Covid. Having got the framework in place it was less effort to add another year.

There's actually a more up to date version of that analyais at: http://odg.org.uk/sdb/documents/misc/MemberAttendance24.pdf

it’s a lot of hard work by the ringing masters and others. The number of practices built up over the last few decades. 40-50 years ago we just had the monthly Saturday practice (minus AGM and competitions) but they lasted 3 hours, whereas now they only last an hour and a half.
OTOH we often has over 30 ringers present in the 80s (I suspect not all present for the whole time, but it’s a long time ago and I can’t remember). Now we get smaller numbers attending, see: https://odg.org.uk/sdb/documents/misc/MemberAttendance23.pdf

this is nothing to do with world heritage status. I suggest you start it as a new topic. That will make it much easier for everyone to keep track, and ensure your question gets read by people interested in it, who might not be interested in the world heritage question.

how many opportunities are you providing each month? — John de Overa

Slightly more including one or two youth ringing activities (shared with adjacent branches). The monthly plan includes elementary, intermediate, advanced and daytime practices plus 3rd Saturday, which most months is a practice except for AGM and two striking competitions. However, not all practices are held. We check for numbers in advance and cancel if there are too few. That avoids anyone turning up and being disappointed. See: http://odg.org.uk/sdb/diary/

What sort of level are each of those? — John de Overa

Elementary has a lot of exercises to help develop core skills (ART based) as well as hunting and s8m0le methods. Intermediate was spun off as a separate practice for those who had progressed most in the elementary. It is more focused with each practice working on specific methods beyond PB, and also including 8 bell ringing. Advanced is from Stedman 7 and TB up to S8.

there needs to be focussed practices for all levels — Martyn Bristow

Our branch runs elementary, intermediate and advanced practices each month (as well as a weekday afternoon and Saturday practice for all levels). The most successful is the elementary, with strong attendance. The intermediate grew out of that (to take forward the more advanced cohort) and is more focused. The advanced practice used to be S8 but was broadened after Covid when numbers dropped.
All of them provide for things people can't get in their own tower. The slight exception is the advanced practice, which although it is all 'advanced' is less advanced than the top end of our weekly tower practice. Many of our ringers don't attend branch practices - a bit chicken and egg..

in my view general branch practices shouldn't contain very much advanced ringing — Charlotte Boyce

I understand the sentiment but I think it’s too simple. I think all practices should include as mix that gives everyone present something of benefit. Obviously given the time available and people present that might entail some compromises but should still be the aim. With a lot of less capable fringes present that’s will mean a lot of basic stuff, but even then it can be a mix that offers individuazlsx and other both comfort zone and challenging opportunities. And don’t forget that the more expedrtienced ringers you rely on to provide solidazrity for those Lees’s capaable also need motivating. Include something for their benefit too. Quite apart from being fair, it will make them more likely to come to the next one.

until those people are gone, ringing will continue on its death spiral. — John de Overa

And what do you expect to be left behind if/when they have all gone?
In our tower the ‘top end’ ringers that you want to depart range in age from under 18 to over 80 so it will be a long wait.

we too run tower tours, both small groups and open days like last weekend when we had well over 100 visitors. But the original question was what is more successful at raising awareness. I don’t know whether an open day is more or less successful doing that than for example the series of half a dozen whole page articles I wrote for the local paper a few years ago, or the hundreds of school cildren i give assembly talks to, or the dozens of articles on many different aspects of ringing in the parish magazine, or the talks i have given to lots of community groups.
I have no way of measuring which of the have the greatest impact. In some cases I know the number of participants but not others, but impact is about more than just being present.

the majority have ringing parents — Simon Linford

Yes, but in the case here he didn't start long after his mother, rapidly overtook her and now helps to support her.

I suspect manny of those who attend the ARA are already doing their bit for others down the ladder. The one of our ringers who attended certainly is, including being Depety Branch Ringing Master.

a large bell-sized trapdoor in the ringing room ceiling, forming the floor of the clock chamber. For many years this was lifted and rotated a few degrees creating wedge-shaped holes in the corners, sufficient to aid ventilation but much too small to be a hazard — Peter Sotheran

Sounds like a trip hazard. And if the holesIf the hole is too small for a foot to catch in I doubt they do a lot for ventilation.

after Covid we had plans (and in fact still do but on ice) to install a fan in the ringing room ceiling, ie in the clock room floor, to draw air up through thee ringing room. To avoid it going Barack downs thee rope holes wwe were going to feed it via a flexible duct to the clock room window. It got as far as flows rated calculations, fan selection and outline design but didn’t get progressed when the urgency passed.
Our concern was to increase the air changed rate to avoid build up of anything harmful. Heat wasn’t an issue since we already have air conditioning.

We have a trap-door style entrance which has to be closed during ringing — Phil Burton

I once rang at a tower where they put a grid in the trapdoor while ringing, strong enough to stand on.