Ringing Forums

tune ringing may be an anathema to those change ringers steeped in our Victorian culture, — Roger Booth

Current ringing culture certainly inherits some features from the Victorians, notably service ringing and territorial societies, but that hardly applies to change ringing. The Victorians promoted it but it began a couple of centuries before them

not many that have gone beyond just trying a cafe at the back of the nave — Simon Linford

We have that, following recent restoration to make the space more suitable for community use. We also hire the church for a lot of concerts and other events.
Wokingham Methodist church also extended its buildings to form the Bradbury Centre, of which the church proper is just a part, and used for some events.
Adelaide Baptist church in Glasgow used to run a B&B in its buildings, which I used for many years, and other things. The B&B stopped several years ago but I don’t know why.

at each practice people write their names in the attendance book. We’ve done that for years, I suspect well before all safeguarding came along.
Sometimes we also write down what was rung.
That’s the easy bit. Totting up the number at each event is easy too s we can compare over the years. When we were thinking about the best time to for Saturday practices it helped to see whether morning, afternoon or evening got better attendance. (There was no pattern, all had high and lows.)
The analysis by individual took quite a bit of work to transcribe the information into a spreadsheet. I first did it to compare pre and post Covid. Having got the framework in place it was less effort to add another year.

There's actually a more up to date version of that analyais at: http://odg.org.uk/sdb/documents/misc/MemberAttendance24.pdf

it’s a lot of hard work by the ringing masters and others. The number of practices built up over the last few decades. 40-50 years ago we just had the monthly Saturday practice (minus AGM and competitions) but they lasted 3 hours, whereas now they only last an hour and a half.
OTOH we often has over 30 ringers present in the 80s (I suspect not all present for the whole time, but it’s a long time ago and I can’t remember). Now we get smaller numbers attending, see: https://odg.org.uk/sdb/documents/misc/MemberAttendance23.pdf

this is nothing to do with world heritage status. I suggest you start it as a new topic. That will make it much easier for everyone to keep track, and ensure your question gets read by people interested in it, who might not be interested in the world heritage question.

how many opportunities are you providing each month? — John de Overa

Slightly more including one or two youth ringing activities (shared with adjacent branches). The monthly plan includes elementary, intermediate, advanced and daytime practices plus 3rd Saturday, which most months is a practice except for AGM and two striking competitions. However, not all practices are held. We check for numbers in advance and cancel if there are too few. That avoids anyone turning up and being disappointed. See: http://odg.org.uk/sdb/diary/

What sort of level are each of those? — John de Overa

Elementary has a lot of exercises to help develop core skills (ART based) as well as hunting and s8m0le methods. Intermediate was spun off as a separate practice for those who had progressed most in the elementary. It is more focused with each practice working on specific methods beyond PB, and also including 8 bell ringing. Advanced is from Stedman 7 and TB up to S8.

there needs to be focussed practices for all levels — Martyn Bristow

Our branch runs elementary, intermediate and advanced practices each month (as well as a weekday afternoon and Saturday practice for all levels). The most successful is the elementary, with strong attendance. The intermediate grew out of that (to take forward the more advanced cohort) and is more focused. The advanced practice used to be S8 but was broadened after Covid when numbers dropped.
All of them provide for things people can't get in their own tower. The slight exception is the advanced practice, which although it is all 'advanced' is less advanced than the top end of our weekly tower practice. Many of our ringers don't attend branch practices - a bit chicken and egg..

in my view general branch practices shouldn't contain very much advanced ringing — Charlotte Boyce

I understand the sentiment but I think it’s too simple. I think all practices should include as mix that gives everyone present something of benefit. Obviously given the time available and people present that might entail some compromises but should still be the aim. With a lot of less capable fringes present that’s will mean a lot of basic stuff, but even then it can be a mix that offers individuazlsx and other both comfort zone and challenging opportunities. And don’t forget that the more expedrtienced ringers you rely on to provide solidazrity for those Lees’s capaable also need motivating. Include something for their benefit too. Quite apart from being fair, it will make them more likely to come to the next one.

until those people are gone, ringing will continue on its death spiral. — John de Overa

And what do you expect to be left behind if/when they have all gone?
In our tower the ‘top end’ ringers that you want to depart range in age from under 18 to over 80 so it will be a long wait.

we too run tower tours, both small groups and open days like last weekend when we had well over 100 visitors. But the original question was what is more successful at raising awareness. I don’t know whether an open day is more or less successful doing that than for example the series of half a dozen whole page articles I wrote for the local paper a few years ago, or the hundreds of school cildren i give assembly talks to, or the dozens of articles on many different aspects of ringing in the parish magazine, or the talks i have given to lots of community groups.
I have no way of measuring which of the have the greatest impact. In some cases I know the number of participants but not others, but impact is about more than just being present.

the majority have ringing parents — Simon Linford

Yes, but in the case here he didn't start long after his mother, rapidly overtook her and now helps to support her.

I suspect manny of those who attend the ARA are already doing their bit for others down the ladder. The one of our ringers who attended certainly is, including being Depety Branch Ringing Master.

a large bell-sized trapdoor in the ringing room ceiling, forming the floor of the clock chamber. For many years this was lifted and rotated a few degrees creating wedge-shaped holes in the corners, sufficient to aid ventilation but much too small to be a hazard — Peter Sotheran

Sounds like a trip hazard. And if the holesIf the hole is too small for a foot to catch in I doubt they do a lot for ventilation.

after Covid we had plans (and in fact still do but on ice) to install a fan in the ringing room ceiling, ie in the clock room floor, to draw air up through thee ringing room. To avoid it going Barack downs thee rope holes wwe were going to feed it via a flexible duct to the clock room window. It got as far as flows rated calculations, fan selection and outline design but didn’t get progressed when the urgency passed.
Our concern was to increase the air changed rate to avoid build up of anything harmful. Heat wasn’t an issue since we already have air conditioning.

We have a trap-door style entrance which has to be closed during ringing — Phil Burton

I once rang at a tower where they put a grid in the trapdoor while ringing, strong enough to stand on.

business cards with its URL ... in their wallet, ready for interested non-ringers wherever they come from ( — Susan Hall

I introduced them for our tower over a decade ago, and I've given them to all manner of people I've met on my travels because although it's our tower website much of the content is generic and aimed at non-ringers, including someone who walked into a tower while we were ringing near Birmingham a few days ago. I'm not sure how many of the rest of the band use them though.
BTW did you know they are called Push Cards? I discovered that when I was sponsor for the Reading University post grad branding project.

Lots of good ideas there, but my reaction was the same as when I first read it. So many bullet points can be overwhelming.
I wonder whether it’s the ‘what to do’ that holds most people back or the lack of a passion to engage with non ringers.
You have that passion and it shows in many of the things you’ve done, but a lot of ringers don’t seem to. Mostly it is passive lack of interest but I’ve been in meetings where people have vehemently said there is no point investing in PR that doesn’t get (immediate) recruits. It’s a transactional mindset that wants to take recruits from the community but is unwilling to engage with the majority who will not become ringers.

is it simply that she can't ring slow backstrokes? — Phil Gay

The inability to ring backstrokes at the required speed is something I see a lot, both hunting up and hunting down. To a degree it is masked by extra effort at handstroke but it is there. I hunting on 5, which is where many people start, the fact that the backstroke in 5ths isn't followed by such an extra effort to get into 6ths the following handstroke is why it shows up so badly. In effect the upward effort ended in 4ths place.
I believe there are two causes, one mental and one physical.
Mentally people tend to think about 'when to pull' more at handstroke, whereas the backstroke 'just happens'.
Physically to change the default speed at backstroke (ie the speed the body/bell will ring with no conscious effort) you have to move hands up or down the rope, and learners tend to cling on (to mthe same spot) for fear of letting go, whereas at handstroke each stroke is a fresh grip on the rope, and where the hand lands is influenced by the urgency or otherwise of thet arms' upward movement, which automatically varies between trying to ring faster or slower.