Ringing Forums

QPs are much closer to the pre-COVID numbers. Perhaps 3+ hour stints of ringing have just gone out of fashion? — John de Overa

People aren't 'peal fit' any more. Peals require physical and mental fitness. I think its also a generational thing. I stopped ringing peals after covid - I lost interest. Although in my 70s I hope I'm still peal fit, but I just don't want to invest the time any more. If I am typical, a lot of peal ringers will have dropped out of the system for the same/similar reasons, thereby contributing to reducing opportunities for younger ringers. This is the whole thing about Ringing 2030 - thousands of us are going to permanently drop out of ringing, let alone peals within a few years! This is really frightening.

I do think it influences how we recruit because we do need to be respectful of the church as the owner of the bells. — Lucy Chandhial

I completely agree.

I know a few ringers (like me) who are not entirely comfortable with ‘calling people to service’ to a religion which can be criticised for its attitude to some people and topics within the community. — Lucy Chandhial

I ring for Sunday services because I enjoy ringing. I don't see it as calling people to church. The sound of church bells doesn't make any difference to the numbers attending. Agreed, sometimes when people hear them they are reminded that they need to get to church, if they are attendees. And, people in my village enjoy their sound. I don't see it as a religious act. I ring because I enjoy it. In return, I am exceedingly happy to ring for service and as steeple keeper I do a lot more too. As a member of the congregation I often talk to people about the bells and am often asked about them. But I also do this within my groups of secular friends. It is a question of engaging with the community, we have to be excited about what we do and tell people through word of mouth, social media and most important, being visible. Also, tell people that they don't have to go to church, everyone is welcome and that 100% of our ringing is done as a hobby! But, the relationship with the church is key and must continually be built upon to develop trust between the parties. Ignore it at our peril!

However I would prefer to see the CCCBR focussing on encouraging many other local groups of ringers to set up their own initiatives, and to share good practice. — Roger Booth

I agree with this statement. My experience in my local area is that there are no towers really taking the initiative. Ringing is fragmented. At a ringing meeting last weekend I asked several ringers if they had heard of Ringing 2030 - no-one had! As an individual tower we have not heard of it either. I have taken a personal interest and decided to try and do something about it. I have been looking at my own tower and written a paper on where we are today, where we are likely to be in 10 years time and what options we might have. Its frightening! I hope to roll out some ideas to local district towers to encourage some critical thinking.

↪Lucy Chandhial
sure I understand that. But there's really no justification with ART being so well established. — John de Overa

I'm not sure, John. People who take up a teaching profession are presumably taught how to 'teach'. ART generally doesn't, it focusses mainly on key mechanical elements of bell handling, control and basic change-ringing. A school teacher doesn't do the job because no one else will, but some ringing teachers probably do! A person might know the subject inside out but if they haven't got the correct demeanor and communication skills it might not go very well! I am an ART teacher and I might be completely hopeless! Perhaps we need to get 'Offbell' in to assess us? But, 99.9% of us are volunteers, and that changes everything!

In the past some have argued that we mustn't charge for tuition or the weekly practice night for fear it deters new blood; — Peter Sotheran

We charge to teach new ringers. So far, we have not had any problems. The fee goes into the tower fund. The learner gets 10 1:1 one-hour lessons plus a free first lesson to visit the bells, handle a rope, chime a bell etc and make sure they want to learn. They come to normal practices immediately.
We've had four recruits in the last 18 months. Nothing is free, let alone the use of specialist equipment such as church bells. In return they get taught by accredited ART techers (if that's relevant) and join the LTR scheme. (People love certificates). Important Note: we don't make a charge to raise money, but to add value to our offering. That is the key thing - adding value.

My feeling was that while he had his "I'm learning bell control" head on it was best to push on and get him to learn to move the bell at both strokes and continuously, rather than getting too used to the much simpler bell control that's needed for CCs — John de Overa

Yes, there is a danger that following one bell for too long, as in CC's, is detrimental to the skill required for looking around for other ropes.

We don't hold them back. We usually wait unitl they are competent. That is, they don't need any prompts. It's also dependent on their bell control accuracy. Its no good clattering about in change-ringing, so we have to watch that too. We explain how CCs work, using a white board (pictures are better than words), and call the up-bell (we have practised calling the down bell too because this system is also used in this area, sadly, sometimes calling up and down in the same touch!). When they can manage on any bell we begin to teach them to hunt, usually from the treble. We explain the theory first and let them follow by numbers, but immediately emphasise the necessity to use places. We get them to hunt on different bells too. We only ring Plain Hunt on 6 (we have 6 bells - unless numbers are limited). This is because call changes are always (mostly) with the tenor behind and our experience is that when the tenor is ever rung-in they say that it doesn't sound the same!! (good point). So we try to 'wring' out this habit of always ringing doubles. After that, its the treble to G5 or PB5 due to limitations in the band. We regularly ask others to call changes, this is good for rope-sight, and importantly, is a more inclusive approach than having just one or two conductors in the band.

There's a school of thought that says if you are going to teach method ringers then they shouldn't be allowed to ring CCs at all, but I think that's unrealistic in most towers. — John de Overa

CCs are also a useful encourager. At least some of the Young Ringers at RWNYC would probably only be able to ring CCs, and what an opportunity and experience that must have been for them. Also, all my CC ringers are calling CCs too, albeit that they are now moving on the PH, so there are other skills associated with them.

I would therefore focus on building up support for Ringing 2030 from the grass roots. Rather than proceed everywhere at once, there is a need for some pilot areas which can show what can be done. There are already successful models to build on, such as Worcester, the Birmingham School of Bellringing, the Mancroft Ringing Discovery Centre, St Clement’s Cambridge, and the Barnes and Darlington teaching hubs etc.

It is the Guilds and Associations and their Districts and Branches that have the financial and manpower resources to support many more local initiatives like these. They need to be asked what their plans are for Ringing 2030, and what support they actually need. I know that many of the new ringers that have learnt in the last two years get it, but invariably they are not the ones holding office. — Roger Booth

I think this is correct, but not all districts have good resources. I would like to see ndividual towers take the initiative too but most are not yet aware of Ringing 2030, or even that in ten years time there is a high possibility that they won't be ringing; and themselves don't have the energy or experience required to protect the future..

As you say, you need to run and change things locally, and in turn the Central Council will do its best to support you. — Tristan Lockheart

Thank you, it seems that we're on the right track. I might try to encourage a more pro active approach by towers in my area.

By 2030 many of the active ringers keeping ringing alive will be less active. — Ken Webb

I completely agree. Our tower can't wait until whatever initiatives trickle down. We are working on this now, initially to consider which areas need to be addressed and to set priorities; this in conjunction with the PCC, our biggest stakeholder. We have to at least try to sustain our future by developing our team, looking after the installation and looking outward into the community.

I think if ringing is going to reverse its decline its something that needs figuring out, and soon. — John de Overa

The key things are - getting local towers to acknowledge their own dire straits. Things might be ok now, as they are in our tower, but I only give us ten years max if we do nothing. Second point, start doing something to motivate ringers now to get out into their own communituies. Of course, there are lots of other challenges too - teaching!

It would be interesting to hear experiences of any CC/PH towers that progressed from there to method ringing at a level beyond PB & GS. — John de Overa

Yes, that is a big challenge, one that we are unlikely to succeed to in the near future!

Our tower is self funding to a large extent becaue we charge ringers to learn and make ourselves known locally, the result of which has been generous (but modest) legacies. We are aware that we hold the keys to a 400 year old activity and need to keep our bells ringing way past our lifetime. The bells were rehung in 2000 and need to be rung. Our ringing is modest, PB5, G5, & PB6 on a good day, but we ring all six every week and on Sundays. We hold a sim practice mid - week. We are considering the CCCBR Towards 2030 initiative to use ideas from that for our tower. Every tower should think about what it can do now - don't only wait for the CC. Many grass roots ringers, however, are keen to rattle off QPs etc but are not aware, or blind to the fact that they need to focus on their own tower for the future. Many years ago I rang at a tower where 8-spliced was a weekly event. One person went to university and we were back to PB8 and G7. Never take anything for granted! Plan for succession!

In business you need to follow the market, and in ringing that is what we need to do. — Roger Booth

Random thoughts! Perhaps we should ask - How would we organise ourselves today if there were no associations? Just as important, how would we see our relationship with the church? Ringing is a modern, exciting secular activity quite distant from the church except for the need to use their buildings and equipment, which by and large we take for granted. My own ringing experience has been based on the associations and church culture. I can ring to surprise royal standard. If I were to learn to ring today that target would be an almost impossible suggestion (speaking generally of course). I would need some sort of experienced group to help me learn but not a traditional association, save the training centres which teach me how to handle a bell, because many towers don't have a good training resource!. The church is a much more important stake holder. In my tower we have installed a six-bell sim, we hold a sim practice every week and between us we visit other practices, and ring quarter peals (and we ring on Sundays) - The association or district could not have provided this for us! Relationship with the parish church is spot on. We've raised money for the tower partly by being known in the community and organising ourselves strongly as a local band. Its hard work and we have been lucky! We do promote membership of the local association because it has one or two aspects which help the wider ringing community such as training centres and bell advice, and at £15 per annum there is nothing to lose!

It is important for the fabric of the church to be protected from pest ingress. This includes birds. Bird ingress can lead to damage to the fabric and clock/bell installations, significant costs in cleaning and can adversly affect human health. The problem should be taken to the PCC which has responsibility for the fabric and environment of the church. The challenge that PCCs and congregations have is to understand the value of the assets in the tower.They have no idea and generally only see it from the outside!

I update our tower website every few weeks. The front page contains a link to our latest news which is dated. https://gransdenbells.org/

I use a hoofer doofer for most things. If I can't find one of those I use a thingummy bob!

I do a very small amount of composing and in basic methods. I use Complib for this purpose. I sometimes write out my comps longhand and then use complib to prove them for me. I've had to learn how to drive it and I would say that I'm not a 'power' user, but its great fun.