Ringing Forums

State pension age is now 68, yet according to many in the ringing world, anyone over 45-50 is considered to be senile and incapable. it's a ridiculous and insulting attitude and says more about the attitudes of the increasingly elderly ringing "elite" than it does about the abilities of people in that age range. Move on please, the 2000s happened nearly a quarter of a century ago. — John de Overa

I want the 30- 50 age range.That gives them at least a 30 year ringing career..I'll still teach beginners over that age and many have a valuble contribution to make, not only in ringing but steeple keeping etc
On a personal note, it is so exciting teaching youngsters. They have tenacity and just absorb everything you throw at them. They have no fear and don't over-think the problem. I count myself lucky to have had the opportunity to teach our 3.
We also hold a weekly daytime tied bell practice for bell control skills and it helps the normal practice hugely. We are lucky to have the facility in the tower to do this, both is the installation (sim included) and I'm retired, but so too are the participants! Its all good fun.

Deliberate Practice and Expert Performance — Simon Linford

We should aim for deliberate practice and expert performance every time we ring in our local towers. Many tower captains don't understand this. As a consequence we are often too lacksadaisical, and coupled with sometimes lack of inate ability we are left with a mediocre ringing attitude.
Great to read about the success of ARA, well done everyone.

Perhaps a bit off topic : Our tower, and many others have a particular problem. Two of our young lads, 9 and 11 have achieved their Level 1 and Level 3 certificates this summer. We can still teach them more at this and they certainly have the inate ability.. Our young lady, who is off to uni has just got her Level 1 after 9 weeks. Given the opportunity she will fly and has already taken herself off to GSM, St Benets and St Clements in Cambridge. She has made a bunch of new young ringing friends, and has arranged ringing in Brighton for herself.
She will ring with us at home between terms, but it is quite likely that we will have little to offer as we struggle with PB and G5. When the boys get older they too wil fly the nest, and good for them, I won't hold anyone back, in fact I actively encourage all our ringers to ring elsewhere to keep learning.
The problem for many local towers, no 30 - 50 year olds, and older people with limited capability hanging on. We need a younger ringing profile in local towers to be a stepping stone for good young ringers.

The one thing I’ve learned about teaching, is you can’t make it prescriptive. Everyone learns differently at different paces and ways. — Martyn Bristow

Agree, adapt to the learner. Another challenge is that people who teach ringing are often not natural teachers. If they teach from a flawed ringing style or little experience the learner is at a disadvantage. I think that observation is one of the most important attributes in a teacher. ART can't cover everything. For example, I teach all my ringers to look through the sally and not focus on it. This saves time and energy and is more efficient, but its not mentioned anywhere. Its also not difficult to do!

While, as you mention, learning the ropes covers this I’ve only been to a couple of towers that adopt the scheme — Martyn Bristow

Learnig the Ropes is a very good, structured scheme, but whatever system of teaching is used it is down to the teachers to promote advanced ringing (peals or quarter peals) and help train their ringers accordigly. One challenge that ringing faces is that many teachers have little experience in 'performance ringing' and therefore cannot promote it. Even ringing a quarter peal of Plain Bob Doubles is a relatively high standard of ringing in most towers!

Is this why there now seem to be more mistakes in peals than there should be / used to be? — Richard Pullin

When I was peal ringing I set myself a max number of trips to 5 per peal and was disappointed to get any, especially early on in a peal. This gave me self determination to maintain a high standard and not let other ringers down.

↪John de Overa
I didn't make an assumption, I made an assertion about what a branch ringing master 'should' be able to do, because he/she would know the capability of someone, and also of local opportunities.
If ringing in an area is in such poor health that the district RM could not play such a role then it seems unlikely that anyone would have advanced to the point of being ready for a peal. — John Harrison

In the main, district RMs don't take on that role. When I was taught my teacher was my mentor and arranged my first QPs and peals. He also guided me in what I should learn to build my skills in a logical way. As my mentor he also introduced me to some of the best ringers. I strongly believe that each learner should have a mentor to give structured guidance. This should not restrict a ringer from making their own decisions and I encourage mine to ring wherever they can, as well as being loyal to their own tower. Sadly, once a learner can ring CCs or PB they are often (but not always) abandoned and it's assumed that they know more than they do, and this can hinder their progress. New ringers know nothing - they need to be looked after!

QPs are much closer to the pre-COVID numbers. Perhaps 3+ hour stints of ringing have just gone out of fashion? — John de Overa

People aren't 'peal fit' any more. Peals require physical and mental fitness. I think its also a generational thing. I stopped ringing peals after covid - I lost interest. Although in my 70s I hope I'm still peal fit, but I just don't want to invest the time any more. If I am typical, a lot of peal ringers will have dropped out of the system for the same/similar reasons, thereby contributing to reducing opportunities for younger ringers. This is the whole thing about Ringing 2030 - thousands of us are going to permanently drop out of ringing, let alone peals within a few years! This is really frightening.

I do think it influences how we recruit because we do need to be respectful of the church as the owner of the bells. — Lucy Chandhial

I completely agree.

I know a few ringers (like me) who are not entirely comfortable with ‘calling people to service’ to a religion which can be criticised for its attitude to some people and topics within the community. — Lucy Chandhial

I ring for Sunday services because I enjoy ringing. I don't see it as calling people to church. The sound of church bells doesn't make any difference to the numbers attending. Agreed, sometimes when people hear them they are reminded that they need to get to church, if they are attendees. And, people in my village enjoy their sound. I don't see it as a religious act. I ring because I enjoy it. In return, I am exceedingly happy to ring for service and as steeple keeper I do a lot more too. As a member of the congregation I often talk to people about the bells and am often asked about them. But I also do this within my groups of secular friends. It is a question of engaging with the community, we have to be excited about what we do and tell people through word of mouth, social media and most important, being visible. Also, tell people that they don't have to go to church, everyone is welcome and that 100% of our ringing is done as a hobby! But, the relationship with the church is key and must continually be built upon to develop trust between the parties. Ignore it at our peril!

However I would prefer to see the CCCBR focussing on encouraging many other local groups of ringers to set up their own initiatives, and to share good practice. — Roger Booth

I agree with this statement. My experience in my local area is that there are no towers really taking the initiative. Ringing is fragmented. At a ringing meeting last weekend I asked several ringers if they had heard of Ringing 2030 - no-one had! As an individual tower we have not heard of it either. I have taken a personal interest and decided to try and do something about it. I have been looking at my own tower and written a paper on where we are today, where we are likely to be in 10 years time and what options we might have. Its frightening! I hope to roll out some ideas to local district towers to encourage some critical thinking.

↪Lucy Chandhial
sure I understand that. But there's really no justification with ART being so well established. — John de Overa

I'm not sure, John. People who take up a teaching profession are presumably taught how to 'teach'. ART generally doesn't, it focusses mainly on key mechanical elements of bell handling, control and basic change-ringing. A school teacher doesn't do the job because no one else will, but some ringing teachers probably do! A person might know the subject inside out but if they haven't got the correct demeanor and communication skills it might not go very well! I am an ART teacher and I might be completely hopeless! Perhaps we need to get 'Offbell' in to assess us? But, 99.9% of us are volunteers, and that changes everything!

In the past some have argued that we mustn't charge for tuition or the weekly practice night for fear it deters new blood; — Peter Sotheran

We charge to teach new ringers. So far, we have not had any problems. The fee goes into the tower fund. The learner gets 10 1:1 one-hour lessons plus a free first lesson to visit the bells, handle a rope, chime a bell etc and make sure they want to learn. They come to normal practices immediately.
We've had four recruits in the last 18 months. Nothing is free, let alone the use of specialist equipment such as church bells. In return they get taught by accredited ART techers (if that's relevant) and join the LTR scheme. (People love certificates). Important Note: we don't make a charge to raise money, but to add value to our offering. That is the key thing - adding value.

My feeling was that while he had his "I'm learning bell control" head on it was best to push on and get him to learn to move the bell at both strokes and continuously, rather than getting too used to the much simpler bell control that's needed for CCs — John de Overa

Yes, there is a danger that following one bell for too long, as in CC's, is detrimental to the skill required for looking around for other ropes.

We don't hold them back. We usually wait unitl they are competent. That is, they don't need any prompts. It's also dependent on their bell control accuracy. Its no good clattering about in change-ringing, so we have to watch that too. We explain how CCs work, using a white board (pictures are better than words), and call the up-bell (we have practised calling the down bell too because this system is also used in this area, sadly, sometimes calling up and down in the same touch!). When they can manage on any bell we begin to teach them to hunt, usually from the treble. We explain the theory first and let them follow by numbers, but immediately emphasise the necessity to use places. We get them to hunt on different bells too. We only ring Plain Hunt on 6 (we have 6 bells - unless numbers are limited). This is because call changes are always (mostly) with the tenor behind and our experience is that when the tenor is ever rung-in they say that it doesn't sound the same!! (good point). So we try to 'wring' out this habit of always ringing doubles. After that, its the treble to G5 or PB5 due to limitations in the band. We regularly ask others to call changes, this is good for rope-sight, and importantly, is a more inclusive approach than having just one or two conductors in the band.

There's a school of thought that says if you are going to teach method ringers then they shouldn't be allowed to ring CCs at all, but I think that's unrealistic in most towers. — John de Overa

CCs are also a useful encourager. At least some of the Young Ringers at RWNYC would probably only be able to ring CCs, and what an opportunity and experience that must have been for them. Also, all my CC ringers are calling CCs too, albeit that they are now moving on the PH, so there are other skills associated with them.

I would therefore focus on building up support for Ringing 2030 from the grass roots. Rather than proceed everywhere at once, there is a need for some pilot areas which can show what can be done. There are already successful models to build on, such as Worcester, the Birmingham School of Bellringing, the Mancroft Ringing Discovery Centre, St Clement’s Cambridge, and the Barnes and Darlington teaching hubs etc.

It is the Guilds and Associations and their Districts and Branches that have the financial and manpower resources to support many more local initiatives like these. They need to be asked what their plans are for Ringing 2030, and what support they actually need. I know that many of the new ringers that have learnt in the last two years get it, but invariably they are not the ones holding office. — Roger Booth

I think this is correct, but not all districts have good resources. I would like to see ndividual towers take the initiative too but most are not yet aware of Ringing 2030, or even that in ten years time there is a high possibility that they won't be ringing; and themselves don't have the energy or experience required to protect the future..

As you say, you need to run and change things locally, and in turn the Central Council will do its best to support you. — Tristan Lockheart

Thank you, it seems that we're on the right track. I might try to encourage a more pro active approach by towers in my area.

By 2030 many of the active ringers keeping ringing alive will be less active. — Ken Webb

I completely agree. Our tower can't wait until whatever initiatives trickle down. We are working on this now, initially to consider which areas need to be addressed and to set priorities; this in conjunction with the PCC, our biggest stakeholder. We have to at least try to sustain our future by developing our team, looking after the installation and looking outward into the community.

I think if ringing is going to reverse its decline its something that needs figuring out, and soon. — John de Overa

The key things are - getting local towers to acknowledge their own dire straits. Things might be ok now, as they are in our tower, but I only give us ten years max if we do nothing. Second point, start doing something to motivate ringers now to get out into their own communituies. Of course, there are lots of other challenges too - teaching!

It would be interesting to hear experiences of any CC/PH towers that progressed from there to method ringing at a level beyond PB & GS. — John de Overa

Yes, that is a big challenge, one that we are unlikely to succeed to in the near future!