Ringing Forums

Trying to push those learners beyond by-bell-number is pointless, and intensely frustrating experience for teachers. Better to accept they've decided to limit their progress and work on improving their skills at that level. — John de Overa

I completely agree John. But to add to your last sentence, they should work on their skills and striking at that level. Unfortunately, to my first hand knowledge, many ringers have little idea about what good striking is!

Any organisation that wants to perpetuate itself needs to — Alan C

accept change!!

It's good to have a positive approach. There are lots of things wrong with ringing! The old boys clubs are not listening, they have had their day and aren't interested any more. It takes individuals to make things happen, so take the initiative and organise something. I remember the first peal I organised. I miscalled it!! but it was a success in every other respect and it gave me a small network of ringers to build on. Perhaps start with quarter peals, not everyone is peal fit nowadays!. I suppose what I am saying is that we should be excited about our ringing. Enthusiasm is infectious, its too easy to say we've done all this before.

Finding your own group, while it sounds good would be harder, especially for lesser connected ringers. — Martyn Bristow

Martyn, I agree, of course. Have you canvassed your local branch on this. Part of their role is to help ringers at all levels.

It needs leading from the association level, as my branch isn’t even ringing quarter peals. — Martyn Bristow

Martyn, I don't think associations are very good at this. It's best to organise things yourself if you can. It's helpful if the branch is organising surprise practices but why not try to get that "critical" mass together yourself. Ringing doesn't have to be under the auspices of the branch or association.

I think one of the problems with raising and lowering is that many learners are not taught to do it soon enough. Raising and lowering are often seen as peripheral skills rather than esential ones. Confident control of tail end length is a critical skill for good ringing. — Phil Gay

I agree Phil, We teach ringing up first, before the learner can ring. This gives them a feel for the bell and managing the rope. Ringing down follows once basic bell control is established. Ringing up and down are critical safety aspects of ringing. If a novice has a problem e.g. the bell comes down a bit, they must know how to take coils and manage the bell safely.

I found it too intense and put it on the back burner!

If you were asked that question, how would you answer? — Vicki Chapman

Perhaps invite them to take photos and write an article about their visit - for the tower, the cathedral and for the Cathedral Music Trust. See if you can find a connection between ringing and singing. How many ringers are/used to be choristers? Is there a connection. Three of our ringers are in the church choir, although I appreciate that at a parish level the relationship is quite different.

It might be sociable, good for toning the arms, mentally stimulating, a means to celebrate local and national events etc. but have we really moved so far away from the original purpose that bells were hung in church towers that ChatGPT did not come across mention of ringing as a service to the church? Has that connection gone or are we too embarrassed to mention it? — Mary Jones

Could it be possible that for the majority of ringers "calling people to worship" (I hate that term) is not their raison de etre? They enjoy ringing for all the reasons you mention, which includes Sunday service ringing, and many do so at several churches each Sunday, but go about it modestly as part of their enjoyment in ringing. I am a champion for announcing the presence of the church in my community but I am ringing to mainly not practising Anglicans although I know that the sound of the bells brings comfort to many parishioners.
We are always ringing to the service of the church whatever the occasion, not just for services, because we do so with the church's permission, and people can't avoid hearing the bells, so I don't think service ringing needs to be singled out. Fee advertising!!!
Having said that, we do expect our ringers to ring on Sundays, but let's admit it, we ring because we enjoy it. The reason for things exisiting changes with time. If ringing for service was our main purpose there would be precious little ringing!

At the end of 2022 we decided to introduce a charge, or what is now commonly called a donation, for training in ringing.
This was set at an amount per lesson for 10 lessons, but a first lesson is free to determine interest on the part of the learner, and a capability assessment by the tutor.
Lo and behold, by co-incidece, someone contacts us because their son wants to learn. Email discussions ensues to explain what is involved and a meeting is arranged for them to tour the tower. (That already ticks off a few boxes in the LTR scheme before the student even touches a rope). The outcome - the student gets an intense 1 hour lesson weekly and also attends our weekly practice night, where, after 4 lessons he is ringing Rounds with help.
Anyway, it was made clear before we met that a donation is requested. This contributes to all teaching materials, (LTR books are given to the student as part of the package), tuition by an LTR accredited teacher, and a whole load of encouragement, which of course is free but a VITAL part of teaching. Oh and lots of smiles). In future, there will be opportunities for him to use the sim and visit other towers etc.
The money goes into the bell fund, the tuition, care and enthusiasm is given free of charge.
This is the first time we have done this and it felt a little uncomfortable initially - asking for money. But, the donation was forthcoming, which will contribute to our annual tower expenditure and capital projects. If the donation had not been forthcoming we would still have taught the learner but would have charged for the teaching materials. The tower should not be out of pocket! After 10 lessons we will continue FOC.
Ringers can't keep giving all the time. We have to maintain our towers and give real value to what we are doing. Pay back by ringing for church services is insufficient, especially as in our case we have only one service per month.
I think charging for tuition, with a flexible approach, is the way forward but we must be dedicated to giving value for money.

Having a strong, local presence is an advantage.
We recently gained a new learner from a nearby parish, who's parents had contacted ART, then contacted me. I emailed them and referred them to our website and FB page, which they researched before coming along to see us. He is on lesson 4 this week and has been to practice nights since day 1.
This coming week I am attending a village "Coronation Planning" Zoom session, by invitation, which has been organised to discuss the coronation weekend. Our interest is to make sure we know what ideas are put forward for village celebrations so that we, as ringers, can be an integral part of the weekend.
This morning I was approached by someone asking if it would be possible to teach a couple of youngsters.
Next Saturday I am giving a tower tour to non-ringers who won it in a raffle at our ringers' coffee morning last November. Probably no ringers from this but excellent PR!
We don't have much luck with direct advertising, personal contact is best, but continued involvement in the community and drip feeding people with information about our ringing helps maintain awareness.

I agree, we always advertise our extra ringing to the village. This is usually quarter peals, but could be ringing meetings or training events. Good PR and we usually get some positive feedback.

Cambridge is not my aim, there will (hopefully) be a number of methods along the way. And I was 17, yes it was easy and I totally get that the older you get, the harder it is to progress... But you didn't answer my question about how long your learners have been ringing? Mine are still making progress, but are they about to plateau? (Am I about to find out) that whilst they can ring rounds and call changes pretty well, they can't really hear their bell at all, and are not going to progress in plain hunting as quickly as I hope...? — Jason Carter

Json, yes, I didn't answer your question. Without a detailed analysis, 2 for 10 years,1 for 40 years with a 30 year break, One is a millennium ringer from elsewhere and hadn't rung again until last year, and the remainder less than 10 years. They have not plateaued but the climb is steep and slow. They can ring R&CC very well and enjoy PB5 PH6 and some can G5 (just). It is grindingly slow sometimes and some can't hear their bells unless they really concentrate. Then, something else goes out the window because there simply isn't enough CPU! But what is really good is the encouragement they give each other and the support they give to the tower. They are a great team, and I wouldn't be without them..

It’s even harder for someone with an alternative religion to ring for a service which calls people to prayer for a religion they don’t agree with (as an atheist I sometimes struggle with this!) — Lucy Chandhial — Jason Carter

Lucy, I'm a bit late responding as I have have just picked up on this. We have at least one atheist and one agnostic amongst our ringers. They are there to ring every Sunday. The bells don't call people to worship as such, they simply announce that a service is about to start. People will still go to church whether or not the bells are rung although some people rely on them for timekeeping and others take comfort on hearing them - including non church goers.

Why do you say this? It sounds like your band is similar to mine. I have at least 12 ringers in a six bell tower, and I'm probably (very nearly) always one, sometimes two short for Cambridge minor. Most of my learners are in a similar age bracket to yours, but most are less than 18 months into their ringing career... Whilst I am under no illusion that it may be challenging and a long road to get them into multiple minor, I am not yet sure that it is not possible. Are your learners longer standing in terms of experience? — Jason Carter

Keep following your aspirations but make sure your band is with you. Your success will depend on a lot of things coming together.
Success in a higher technical standard of ringing relies on good handling skills and understanding (not always easy for older learners), and largely on working through more basic methods and ringing them over and over. Too often ringers are thrown into Cambridge from PB6 / St Clements, and TB is rarely rung.
I learned when I was 14, it seemed easy! I was brought up on multi doubles, plain minor and TB before embarking on S. I know things are different now and resources more scarce, so a different approach is needed. Perhaps the biggest challenge is opportunity, time and most importantly committment of ringers to work hard - regular personal revision/theory and multiple practices per week!.

In our village team, out of nine ringers, two are under 40 and the remainder over 60 with a couple of those over 70. I am over 70 and ring surprise royal. My wife Sheila is over 70 and rings surprise minor. Of the rest, two can ring PB5 and 4 others are learning it. The remainder are ringing call changes and tackle PH5 occasionally. We get some help occasionally on a practice night from a more experienced ringer. Except for me and Sheila and the under 40s, everyone learned as 50 plus. If we want ringers to have a broad repertoire of Minor and Major - ours are not going to make it!!
BUT! what our ringers do have is enthusiasm and the determination to do as well as they can. They are loyal to our Sunday service ringing (although SS ringing is not our main raison d'etre because there are so few services), and we ring for community events. During this year we have visited four different tower practices as a band, been on one mini outing; we rang our hearts out for the Jubilee and Funeral, and we arranged a successful social event for our tower funds.
These ringers are important, and Sheila and I try to encourage them by giving them different ringing experiences. We are very happy to do this and the band has a great time together. Do other tower leaders do likewise for their (below median) ringers, because these ringers are what we've got and we need to make the most of it??
We are ok for the next 5 years or so. After that, I expect that we will start dropping off, so to speak, so planning for succession is our next lmid term project!!!

That's one of the structural issues with ringing - you need a thought leader at every tower to drive things forward; there simply aren't enough to go around (even perhaps only for towers with 10 bells or more). The tower leaders are probably the most important (and critical) people in ringing. We all need to be fostering leadership and organising skills, even at an early stage. — Tristan Lockheart

Completely correct. It is also the only way to plan for succession IMO

Good idea, I'm in.for a survey and co-ordinate in my district.

Have a look at this graph from our recent district survey. — Roger Booth

Thank you, just the ticket! Please may I use this as a reference document for future discussions in my area?

There are lots of talented people out there who could step in, they just need encouragement. — Roger Booth

It's just that the existing culture is very good at reinforcing itself, and is averse to change. — Roger Booth

You are right on these points but in our local area it is very difficult to get people involved, probably because the Victorian system hasn't anything to offer! (Note for self, expedite my recent enquiries!)

My experience is that few people nowadays take up ringing as it is a service to the church. It is no longer seen as a duty to their parish which means that they have limited interest in anything other than their local band — Roger Booth

. My ringing is a hobby (I hate that term!). I always ring for church services as I see that as an important part of ringing but it tends to be an "also ran", being only about 10% of my total. We never major on service ringing or church for new ringers.

The problem with the traditional system is that too few communications get down to the ringers at grass roots level. — Roger Booth

I am currently trying to promote discussion about communications in my Association.

However, it's not surprising that WhatsApp groups targeted at those with specific interests (e.g weekday ringing, training events, surprise major practices, handbell ringing, quarter peals etc) are significantly more popular. — Roger Booth

WhatsApp is an excellent platform. Currently I only use it in my own tower situation, but it is quicker and easier than email and lends itself to instant communication and interaction. It is also very flexible being able to quickly accomodate new groups/subgroups for specific projects/events.

If people can pay their subs on-line and receive regular communications about activities that they are interested in taking place nearby and which are of interest to them, ringing will flourish. — Roger Booth

I collect subs from everyone in the tower and pay online. That's the best we can do but it saves a dozen individuals submitting them. I am left with gathering cash. Not ideal and perhaps many Towers Secs would not want to do this! I am not sure if members have been canvassed about what ringing activities might interest them!

Activity would be driven in a modern bottom-up way by the membership, rather than the old rigid Victorian top-down way. — Roger Booth

In general we prefer to be lead than to lead. Your modern concept, with which I agree, requires more effort from more people, not only Association and District officers. The first step in any change is to wake up and see that we need to do it, and we are still asleep on this one!
It is important that I point out that I am speaking in general terms. In my Association there are some successful initiatives but at a local level we are still fairly Victorian. .