Ringing Forums

Another logo to add to the publicity material :smile:

Can't see a downside to being listed.

It will require a lot of money and a lot of vision. — Tristan Lockheart

And a great deal of effort and time. How many will be willing to stand as a local official if it requires a great deal of unpaid work (or paid) to administer, fund and organise a network of buildings?

Bell ringing as a pastime has been compared to cycling and running, but I think heritage railways are probably a closer fit. It’s an activity that can only take place in a limited number of locations, using expensive and heritage methods.

Hmmm, "super-benefice" sounds suspiciously like a Methodist circuit. "parish hubs", well each Methodist Minister has several chapels within the circuit under his care. "train laity to take on clergy responsibilities", well of course Methodism has always relied on its Local Preachers to take a larger percentage (possibly majority) of services. Perhaps Welby has been studying Wesley? — J Martin Rushton

A closer analogy might be a ringing hub where resources are gathered and applied where needed. Methodist circuits, in theory, provide a minister for each church (rotate after 3 years I think) and support when a minister is needed for services. Like an archdeaconry in CofE.

Having recently joined a PCC, the cost of maintaining a Victorian pile is high, the cost of maintaining clergy is also considerable, the suggested donation for a parish being 80K annually.

It could be that the C of E is planning to dispose of assets it no longer has need of, to support those that are still viable. Bell ringing is a by-product of CofE churches, they don’t exist just to keep the bells dry :smile:

Perhaps the CCCBR could organise a new bell ringing centre in Wigan so that bell ringers own the bells they ring. In that case, some-one is going to need deep pockets.

Historic England has some advice on Bells and Bell Frames which might have some bearing on the discussion.

Isn't the Keltek Trust an existing mechanism for dealing with unused bells?

Is there a similar trust for almost unused forums? :wink:

Encouraging the Church of England to see their church bells as a saleable asset seems a dangerous precedent. Cash strapped parishes may decide that the whole business of supporting a ring of bells is not worth the effort and either do away with them altogether or go for a more economically viable recording of bells.

The art we practice is archaic, if you question the need to have bells, you question the need to have bell ringers or change ringing at all.

I am assuming that the instrument, be it a piano or a ring of bells, having been unused for a decade that the church has tried and failed to put it to use. — Peter Sotheran

Then it would be up to the church to dispose of the assets as they see fit. It would seem odd, to me at least, that ringers who haven't been using the bells should try to lay claim to them.

I can revise my earlier comment - if some bequeathed a rather fine grand piano to church but it was never use and stood idle for a decade or more, what should the church authorities do? Keep and let it slowly deteriorate through lack of use and the conditions in whixh it is stored? Or would it be more beneficial to sell to someone who can make good use of it and use the income to add to the usable assets or functions of the church? — Peter Sotheran

It would be best to find someone who could play the piano, so it could be played where intended :smile:

As he says it must be a no brainer. If you inherited a rather fine grand piano but no one in your family played and it stood in the corner untouched bar the occasional dusting, what would you do? Keep it 'because granny always loved it' or sell it on to someone who can make good use of it? — Peter Sotheran

That presumes granny hasn't nicked it from the local church. This seems to ignore the fact that bell ringers do not own the bells they ring. It also assumes that ringers are able and willing to travel reasonable distances to ring.

Thanks Lucy

Excellent initiative. Was there positive feedback on the survey itself?

Yes, thanks Simon :smile:

The CCCBR may be able to help.

https://cccbr.org.uk/about/workgroups/historical-and-archive/

Someone needs to check the spelling of the heading at
http://nccc.cccbr.org.uk/#national-call-change-competiton

Excited to see the promotional video :smile:

Love God and Love your neighbour. — John Harrison

I believe the second injunction is 'Love your neighbour as yourself' which is rather more explanatory.

Thanks for the update!

Any organisation that wants to perpetuate itself needs to be recruiting constantly, I hope that’s not a revelation.

Unfortunately there are not enough peal organisers who will go out of their way to try and include new people in their peals — Simon Linford

Perhaps the falling number of peals being rung isn't such a mystery.

I have to ask how many requests for filming does the CCCBR receive in a year when there isn’t an angle to hang the story from?

If the answer is what I expect it is, we need the coverage more than the media outlet needs the story.

Not entirely sure, but probably the best outcome is not to have anything to do with religion itself. — DRJA Dewar

That may be your personal conclusion, but not a suitable position for representatives of the CCCBR to take.

'The church would have few if any ringers or musicians for its goings on if only churchy people were allowed. — DRJA Dewar

The last two recruits to our band came from the congregation, so I think this is somewhat of an oversimplification.