Ringing Forums

Two thoughts, come to mind in relation to this, suggesting that individual mentors may not be the ideal answer.

First was a recent experience training for the RoSPA advanced, driving test. I was given a very nice and entirely competent tutor who just didn’t work for me. He was far too nice, telling me how good I was, but failing to pick up on issues I needed to improve on. Fortunately I was able to change tutors, but it was not an easy situation for a while. — Richard Pargeter

It would be necessary to have a cooling off period or a walk away no questions asked approach and then try and find a new mentor if this happened, because we know for a fact that not all ringers get on with all other ringers...

So, in summary, I think I’m saying that an open culture where everyone feels able to offer advice, and everyone listens to advice which is offered (not necessarily the same as accepting it!) is what we really need. — Richard Pargeter

Absolutely this is the best approach but if that was ever a thing in ringing I would suggest it is now only working in some locations because either there isn't the critical mass to still support it, or some towers do not appreciate someone coming in and passing any sort of comment whether offered in a friendly way or otherwise. Therefore a more formal approach would be better for those people that would like to participate and that is better than maintaining the status quo?

excellent idea. Don’t worry if you can’t get to all Associations to start with. Go with the ones you can get hold of and hopefully others will get on board later

probably either a whole branch, or a whole association, so say 100 people or 1000 people

this is what I mean. If we are able to distribute the message more quickly that a national press event is happening, then this can be picked up at a local level to enable individual towers/branches to capitalise on it. In my opinion, all publicity can be good publicity.

Diagrams
Ringing Circles
What else would you recommend?

I am starting to wonder whether we need to set a new bookstall up. New ringers potentially could create demand because they don’t know what is out there. The main challenge would be knowing what to have in stock, and how many. Although in theory money is not an issue…

ask you branch committee and if they don’t know ask them to go up the chain. This should be a two way street!

The original plan was to dramatically reduce the number of Reps, leaving them with the governance role wihtout the expectation to further volunteer. — Tina

I think the decision not to reduce the amount of the council was an opportunity missed. It pre-dates my time on the Council and I know it is a complicated subject, however that size of room cannot hold the Exec to account once a year, and half of them were not even there...

The Association chooses their representatives, and then decides what they want from them, in exchange for some payment of reasonable expenses. — Tina

I am not sure they do. Reps get nominated but I am not sure their role is defined clearly enough. Communication both towards the council and with their own association grassroot members doesn't happen. So often, it is a role in name only; if the reps actually attend... The list of non attendees is long.

And no expenses are offered.

Personally, I would be delighted if Associations chose Representatives who were also willing to engage more meaningfully with the work that we do, join a working gr — Tina

Totally agree. I believe there are about 90 workgroup members, not all CC Reps, but they could easily be, if the right people were recruited in the first place

Great question and one I have been thinking about recently, given my association reps have responded to the CC on the recent budget that they shared.

I am nearly 50 and recently joined as a CC Rep. Financial considerations were not in my thinking, but if I am honest there weren't many people at my first meeting that were younger than me - would expenses provide a solution to that, and provide a more diverse view? Possibly not, but Reps could donate money back to their societies if they chose to do that (as I understand is contemplated in the CC expenses policy) and it might reduce a barrier to having a voice at the table, which would be positive.

I do think it’s an issue, and I think it says something about the perceived impact of the role. — Lucy Chandhial

I would like the role to be more clearly defined by both the CC and local associations. I have experience in two large associations and communication from the reps over the years has been minimal. The exercise needs to increase the level of communication by an exponential amount. The reps in my assocation are trying to deliver that in our area.

With respect John, I am really struggling to see how your own personal experience means Ringing 2030 is stillborn. If you are starting to look at Bristol, then you are already a lot more advanced than the vast majority of ringers, and that is fantastic. In the G&BDA the CC Reps are working hard to update the local leadership, and then the membership on what is going on, and we are preparing to leverage off what Ringing 2030 is trying to achieve. But most of that work will be at a more early stage than Bristol Major. In fact, we may also effect change even if Ringing 2030 doesn't provide that impetus, time will tell. Unfortunately though, time... will have to tell.

I am sure that other associations are trying to address the decline. Maybe not all though...

There's no practically-accessible Major sessions in this area of my home association (Derby), most of the nearest towers are in Chester/Yorkshire/Lancashire. — John de Overa

If you are in Derby, I find that hard to believe. There is nowhere in Nottingham or Leicester? I have moved away from Northants but I can think of other towers in North Northants maybe only 1 hour away?

You are not on Bellboard. Why do you not use your actual name? If you would like to talk you can find me on the swindon branch website. Happy to talk in whatever medium you are comfortable with.

it does vary hugely geographically as to when you hit a barrier of not having enough ringers at a similar level wanting to make similar progress.
— Lucy Chandhial

I agree, from what I've seen the situation is much better in some other areas. From what I've been told, things have not been good here (Greater Manchester) for many decades, — John de Overa

are you in Manchester or Derby? If you are in Manchester (and I know this area less well) I would be surprised if there is not a practice that can offer surprise major.

The intent behind Ringing 2030 is laudable, the apparently glacial rate or progress is not. Time is running out. — John de Overa

Ringing is a very localised activity. There is no way in the world that "The Centre" can solve ringing for the whole of the Country. It has to be done at grassroots level so I would say, experienced ringers like you need to 1. find their own high level ringing, and 2. help to pull up those below you, to be more experience than they currently are. We all need to take responsibility for helping those less experienced
than we are. Someone taught us once.

there are many ringers who spend more than 75% of their ringing time helping others to improve without being stretched or challenged themself. — Lucy Chandhial

I have a none ringing spouse, and therefore have a limited amount of ringing time. So I spend 100% of my available ringing time trying to develop more inexperienced ringers than myself. I get an enormous amount of joy out of that.

Ringing 2030 is not going to solve everything overnight, but it is a movement that is trying to move in the right direction. Don't give up on it John and please try and support it.

I would take this one step further and suggest that we write procedure notes to explain what tasks each role needs to do and how. The reason I am suggesting this is because I have just discovered this week (after being involved in my branch committee for five years) that there is a dedicated section of our association website (behind a login and password) where you can generate a members pack which includes a letter from the RM, map, tower listing etc. There was no handover due to vacancies at the time and procedure notes would likely have avoided this.

I received the business plan and budget as a forward from one of our Reps and agree that the budget lacks detail — Lucy Chandhial

Apparently some additional notes were missing so hopefully these will follow in due course.

thanks

1100 ish out of the total of 36,000 ish is only 3%. Do you just carve them out of the initial requirement for a year or two to give more time to think of a longer term solution?

Hi Tina

Well done last night, a useful session.

One of the questions I had coming out of last night was: how many affiliated societies do not have an annual fee which may mean it is going to be difficult for them to support the motion? I am assuming it will be a small minority (either by number of societies or members), but is there a workaround (e.g. a possible grace period of one year where needed) whereby more time could be given to enable those affected societies to get on board? It would seem better to be able to proceed even if only 70-80% could contribute from day 1 rather than need 100% and then the motion doesn't carry, and another year is lost?

I ring for Sunday services because I enjoy ringing. I don't see it as calling people to church. The sound of church bells doesn't make any difference to the numbers attending. Agreed, sometimes when people hear them they are reminded that they need to get to church, if they are attendees. And, people in my village enjoy their sound. I don't see it as a religious act. I ring because I enjoy it. — Phillip George

Interested, given you attend Church as to why you don't see it as a calling from the Church to attend? I don't go to Church, but I always ring on a Sunday, primarily as a message that the Church is there. It is part payback (so I can ring at other times) but I wouldn't naturally ring on a sunday without that aspect, I would probably just ring 1-2 evenings a week...

I think it is not unknown and not completely ignored but declining attendance in churches which have bells (C of E mainly) is also a factor which we struggle to relate to bellringing recruitment.
100 years ago — Lucy Chandhial

Thanks Lucy, so your Elephant is: the continuing and long established decline in congregation numbers (and therefore any historically natural internally generated pipeline of new recruits within the Church) no longer provides the critical mass needed for recruitment and retention as we approach 2030? Which means we need to look beyond the historical catchment area and look towards groups which are not naturally pre-disposed to enter a church building; maybe more secular groups or groups with a different faith, both of which could enjoy ringing (for their own reasons; be that mental physical, social etc) and appreciate at any level, the purpose or value of ringing for Sunday services alongside any practice nights they may also choose to attend?

Boiling it down: Elephant 1 - how do we encourage recruits who are not naturally predisposed to enter a church building? (either because Christianity is not their faith or they have no faith)?

There is no sense in the CCCBR doing ANYTHING which ART has already developed & provided.

As an example ART off lots of guidance on Recruitment & Retention (what more is needed?):
https://ringingteachers.org/index.php?cID=625 — Ken Webb

1. a national marketing campaign - to an extent we need learners to come and find us; with help from the centre.
2. engagement with the current ringing population - lots of people don't know how to go about recruitment, don't read the Ringing World, don't go to any branch or association activities, and haven't heard about ART either.

2. Does an income of £30k or so enable the central organisation to do anything materially different to what it does now? That doesn't allow much for 'paid staff', although it would be a good start. — Simon Linford

By the time you have paid for employers national insurance, pension contributions and a payroll bureau to operate payroll, you are roughly looking at 1 full time employee on national living wage.

A post on the very local FB community page has provided two intakes of learners that are both making good progress and now regularly ring for sunday service. A whatsApp group provides a good bond between the group and rarely a day goes by without some chatter in it.

↪Jason Carter do you mean a simulator practice? Or do you just mean an ordinary practice with bells tied and electronic sound? I assume the latter but the terminology is confusing. — John Harrison

yes I meant a silent practice...