Ringing Forums

It would have been much easier to say "Over number 7". — J Martin Rushton

That still requires translating a number into a location, which (a) uses mental resources and (b) might interfere with any numerical information the learner might still have about position. If the location is the most useful information just point. But that information will be obsolete in a second or so. If the learner's bell isn't where it should be it might be more helpful to give advice on that, or on the need to change speed, both of which are likely to be valid for several blows.

so much of this I want to say 'but it shouldn't be like that' or 'but we never do it like that'. Even teaching other kids in my teens with no access to books or courses I'm sure we did better than that, so I wonder why such customs have become so widespread. We probably need to understand that as much as knowing all the ways to do things better.

Having someone standing behind is a solution but I think that's very hard to do well ... it would be interesting to hear from the best practitioners how they do it — John de Overa

There's a whole section about standing behind in The Tower Handbook, see: https://jaharrison.me.uk/thb/12-2.html#12-2 . There's probably a Learning Curve Article on it too, called 'Back seat driver' iirc

Handling that's OK for CCs isn't good enough for methods — John de Overa

It isn't just about how good (or it would be with more practice) it's often wrong, with no concept of ringing at different speeds or how to change speed.

I answered the question posed, is what do kids do that's different. It's a fact that the early part of our lives are dominated by learning new things, both formally and by experience, and it is reasonable to suppose that will help them learn other things. That idea is supported by the experience of teaching six actors to ring for Midsomer Murders. They learnt much more quickly than most - ni more than 4 hours of rope time to be able to ring rounds on their own, and for one of the to ring two bells double handed. What do actors for for a living? They learn things.
If interested, see: https://jaharrison.me.uk/New/Articles/RingOutDead.html

I was very impressed with the optional extra 'Handling Clinic' sessions — David Smith

We ran them as evening options years ago. Of the students I had, some responded well but a few had such engrained problems it was difficult to undo in an hour or two.

they can practice with less good bands at almost any practice in the country! — Iain D Scott

Not for a lot of methods, certainly Surprise, even Minor, and there are lots of towers where you couldn't run Plain Bob Minor.
However, if the subject being learned is towards the advanced end, the students ought to be competent ringers, I'd reliable on things below the method being learned, so it should be possible to get more rope time even with 'one at a time' for the chosen method, eg covering to Stedman or Treble to Surprise.
Also in my experience on more advanced courses some of the students will be steady enough to allow two at a time for some touches.

"83% say they are looking to improve their ringing"
Survey slide — Charlotte Boyce

Do we believe that? It would imply that only 1 in 6 isn't.
It's too easy to say you would like to improve. The follow up 'How?' Is a start, but I think it needs to go further since it's also easy to say you'd like something that's not available. A more probing question, less easy to answer glibly, would be 'What are you currently planning (or expect to within say six months) t improve your ringing?

I do wonder if the importance of age is often overstated — John de Overa

I'm sure it is. I think it's too easy to go from the generally accepted fact that learning certain types of skill gets harde with age on average to the assumption that it applies to all individuals. On average women are shorter than men, but my 6' daughter looked down on my 5'6" father.
And although developing the core skill of controlling a bell is fundamental to progress, it is only a small part of what leads to a long term ringing career, and many other aspects are not particularly age related. They depend much more on environment, opportunity and of course individual drive and interests.
Of the people I have taught (same teacher, same tower, etc) the fastest to being able to ring competently with others was 39. The slowest was 15, and his mother, who I taught later, at 50, was faster.

do you mean a simulator practice? Or do you just mean an ordinary practice with bells tied and electronic sound? I assume the latter but the terminology is confusing.

I believe all the QPs of the associated method have been removed from BB. — John de Overa

I just did a search and found 804 performances.
It would be completely unacceptable to distort the historic record by wholesale removal of performance records because someone took a retrospective dislike to the method name.

I too wondered why you asked about Yorkshire tails, but your question applies equally to sallies.
I've seen sallies in esrly 19th century pictures of ringing, but a black and white picture doesn't say much about what colour they were. It would be interesting to know when they were first coloured, and when red/white/blue became the dominant combination.

added to that I would add - look at the structure of your chosen method, how different parts fit together, and where the landmarks are, like meeting the Treble and you course bells.
That will all help you recover when you wobble r drop off the line.
It may also help you to respond to advice from others trying to put you right. Mobel (and I assume other programs that can show you a method) you can choose between shoeing the line, showing the grid and 'diary' format (all the numbers which clutter the picture but can sometimes help working out who you meet where).
To switch between them with Mobel just double tap the display.

I think you are mixing up several things. Devon ringers ring call changes well and many bands who see methods as the norm produce ringers who can't strike well. Correlation isn't causation. In method land lots of bands strike call changes badly, and bands that consistently strike well tend to be bands with a good method repertoire. That suggests the opposite correlation, and proves that what is being rung isn't the point, or at least not the main point.
Preceding comments were about rope following, holding up and ringing by numbers. That's far more significant. Look at how many people are taught to ring, introduced to collective ringing, and given advice while ringing. It is dominated by rope following and not by the need to developm rhythmic bell control and listening skills. Is it any surprise that so many ringers develop non rhythmic, non hearing, vision dominated habits, and only a few manage to pick up the essential core skills despite how they are taught.
I would say the culture in a crack method band is much closer the the culture in a crack call change band, a focus on striking as the objective and developing the skills needed to achieve it, than it is to many bands and ringers in method land. To change the result we need to change the culture, but that is hard because new ringers are infected by the existing culture of the bands they join.

Being on the geographical boundary of Essex, Herts and Middlesex probably doesn’t help — Lucy Chandhial

My reaction was the opposite. It means you can fish in three adjacent ponds. When I was learning I benefitted from being in an overlap between two societies, which meant twice as many 'local' practices a month.

fell free to copy or adapt anything from: https://allsaintswokinghambells.org.uk/ASProject/Dedication.pdf

One possible contender might be the recording of Evercreech that the BBC used to broadcast every day. I remember it from the 1950s but I don't know how much earlier they used it.

Has any one tried beech or hornbeam — Alison Hodge

When I was CUG steeple keeper in the 1960s I had to buy some stays. I asked for ash but the wood yard hadn't got any and gave me beech as an alternative. I don't know whether the breakages were more or less tan they would have been with ash though.

What Would John Do ?? — PeterScott

No, the other rather more famous 'J'.