Ringing Forums

I do wonder if the importance of age is often overstated — John de Overa

I'm sure it is. I think it's too easy to go from the generally accepted fact that learning certain types of skill gets harde with age on average to the assumption that it applies to all individuals. On average women are shorter than men, but my 6' daughter looked down on my 5'6" father.
And although developing the core skill of controlling a bell is fundamental to progress, it is only a small part of what leads to a long term ringing career, and many other aspects are not particularly age related. They depend much more on environment, opportunity and of course individual drive and interests.
Of the people I have taught (same teacher, same tower, etc) the fastest to being able to ring competently with others was 39. The slowest was 15, and his mother, who I taught later, at 50, was faster.

do you mean a simulator practice? Or do you just mean an ordinary practice with bells tied and electronic sound? I assume the latter but the terminology is confusing.

I believe all the QPs of the associated method have been removed from BB. — John de Overa

I just did a search and found 804 performances.
It would be completely unacceptable to distort the historic record by wholesale removal of performance records because someone took a retrospective dislike to the method name.

I too wondered why you asked about Yorkshire tails, but your question applies equally to sallies.
I've seen sallies in esrly 19th century pictures of ringing, but a black and white picture doesn't say much about what colour they were. It would be interesting to know when they were first coloured, and when red/white/blue became the dominant combination.

added to that I would add - look at the structure of your chosen method, how different parts fit together, and where the landmarks are, like meeting the Treble and you course bells.
That will all help you recover when you wobble r drop off the line.
It may also help you to respond to advice from others trying to put you right. Mobel (and I assume other programs that can show you a method) you can choose between shoeing the line, showing the grid and 'diary' format (all the numbers which clutter the picture but can sometimes help working out who you meet where).
To switch between them with Mobel just double tap the display.

I think you are mixing up several things. Devon ringers ring call changes well and many bands who see methods as the norm produce ringers who can't strike well. Correlation isn't causation. In method land lots of bands strike call changes badly, and bands that consistently strike well tend to be bands with a good method repertoire. That suggests the opposite correlation, and proves that what is being rung isn't the point, or at least not the main point.
Preceding comments were about rope following, holding up and ringing by numbers. That's far more significant. Look at how many people are taught to ring, introduced to collective ringing, and given advice while ringing. It is dominated by rope following and not by the need to developm rhythmic bell control and listening skills. Is it any surprise that so many ringers develop non rhythmic, non hearing, vision dominated habits, and only a few manage to pick up the essential core skills despite how they are taught.
I would say the culture in a crack method band is much closer the the culture in a crack call change band, a focus on striking as the objective and developing the skills needed to achieve it, than it is to many bands and ringers in method land. To change the result we need to change the culture, but that is hard because new ringers are infected by the existing culture of the bands they join.

Being on the geographical boundary of Essex, Herts and Middlesex probably doesn’t help — Lucy Chandhial

My reaction was the opposite. It means you can fish in three adjacent ponds. When I was learning I benefitted from being in an overlap between two societies, which meant twice as many 'local' practices a month.

fell free to copy or adapt anything from: https://allsaintswokinghambells.org.uk/ASProject/Dedication.pdf

One possible contender might be the recording of Evercreech that the BBC used to broadcast every day. I remember it from the 1950s but I don't know how much earlier they used it.

Has any one tried beech or hornbeam — Alison Hodge

When I was CUG steeple keeper in the 1960s I had to buy some stays. I asked for ash but the wood yard hadn't got any and gave me beech as an alternative. I don't know whether the breakages were more or less tan they would have been with ash though.

What Would John Do ?? — PeterScott

No, the other rather more famous 'J'.

what are wheels made from? — Jason Carter

I believe the traditional materials are oak spokes, ash sole and elm shrouding, but the shrouding on our new wheels was plywood - obviously not a lot of elm around these days.

that article is about Doubles but the previous discussion was about Triples.

is it still going and if so how do you/would I know? — Richard Norman

Afia discussions never 'close', people just stop commenting when they have no more to say.
Each comment has its age at thee bottom so you can see how active the discussion is.
But if you want to say something then do so and it will be seen by others interested.

Indeed, but I was trying to strip it down to basics. On reflection I'm not sure that 'as yourself' adds a lot in the context of a tower captain's behaviour. As well as a power difference there will often be a (potentially large) difference of experience and perspective. A lot of the skill of a leader is being able to see things from the other person's point of view and understanding the neds of someone different from him/herself..

is looking for Ten Commandments a good idea?
The biblical ten were somewhat legalistic and represented Old Testement thinking. In the New Testement they were famously boiled down to two: Love God and Love your neighbour. In a ringing context we can discount the first (not all ringers believe in one, and those who do don't need ringers to remind them) so we can just interpret the second one in the context of the tower.
Do we need to list all the ways of 'loving' fellow ringers? The list could be long, people would argue about the details and it would inevitably miss something. So why not just stick with the principle, with the onus on us all to apply it in whatever situation we find ourselves in - to think what the effect of our actions would be and ask whether that's the outcome we intend.
If in doubt, one can always revert to asking WWJD (for those who remember that expression).

I was wondering how long before someone mentioned the £5 note trick (or the ten Bob note trick as it was when I was teaching other kids in my teens). I have do nonstarter it, but it's very difficult to keep your wrists in contact because it forces extreme wrist bending to open and close round the sally. It's another example where what one might assume is the ideal turns out not to be. I describe what the hands should be doing (all the time when not together on the rope) as flying in close formation. There's a picture on p23 of New Ringer's Book showing the maximum hand separation.

put the tail end into your right hand using your left han — John de Overa

That's what I meant by the two hands working together, one gives and the other takes. As I said, it's harder to describe than demonstrate.

go through the motions slowly with a stationary rope, I'd slide your hands down the sally instead of pulling it, but otherwise move your hands, and open and close them round the rope, as you would when ringing the bell. That way you can focus on the detail before doing it faster, and then with a live rope.
If your fingers are getting mixed up with the rope I suspect your hand is closing on the tail end much too late. There should be very little gap between both hands opening from the sally and the right hand joining the left hand on the tail end. Somewhere around waist level, and well before the bottom.
Both hands should work together and never go far apart, so the right hand closes on the rope as the left hand places it into it.
The angle of the hands is also important. As the hands leave the Sally the rope is coming out of the top of the hands, but they then turn forward so the rope falls over the front of the band where it's easier for the other hand to get hold of it.
Not sure how clear that is, it's much easier to demonstrate than describe. There's a description and pictures on p17 of The New Ringer's Book if you have a copy.
HTH

that seems reasonable because even 'the most elaborate scheme' is at best an outline of the myriad small decisions and actions needed in practice. I've seen similar comments that people who want to make a system work will find a way to do so despite its defects, but if they don't then even an apparently good system will fail.