Ringing Forums

Does anyone recognise these leather stamps please? Ideally who uses / used them.
Thanks

Thanks Nick - yes, we are following up about Frank Barnett. As you say, the bells in the photo look like the condition pre-restoration. Frank's leather work shown in Bill Butler's Handbell book includes his name. This does not appear on the bells now in the box.

AJ - I have discovered a lot more since the first note above. I don't intend to disclose too much openly. However, yes, the geography is probably Worcestershire but the handwriting and workshop were not David Beacham's.

I now have additional photos. There are 15 bells in total, some Mears some Shaws. The bells all fit into the large, purpose made wooden box, which looks “relatively” new . The photo included previously was in the the date they were refurbished on the back (January 1984). Logically, the box may have been made at that time.
We are wondering if it may have been David who did the refurbishing and / or made the box? Is the handwriting his? Could the photo possibly be the interior of his workshop or garage with the bells before refurbishing? Do you recognise the wooden box – would that be a style that he perhaps used? Did he even keep a record of restorations that he completed?

That sounds low as it is only an average of about 8 per Diocese.
However, 350 may be realistic in the 5 years cited. It will take a long time to take the decisions on which to close and how, even for those already the most at risk. The bigger problem may actually emerge after that when there will have been test cases established on the processes and mechanisms to use, momentum gathers, aging population aged further, more fabric deterioration, more online events etc.

When we cleared a similar glut in our Association, we ensured that the following occurred -
- a complete set was bound for Association records - this had been started some years ago and was brought up to date with good clean copies.
- This complete set has been deposited in the County Archive along with other Assoc records.
- a second complete set was collected, again for Assoc records but left unbound, stored in good clean condition. Anyone wishing to scan or make a copy can then do so as copying from bound volumes is difficult. This set is retained by our Assoc Archivist.
- a 3rd complete set is kept for "routine" use by the Assoc Peal Secretary
- the CCCBR Library holds a copy of all Assoc reports - contact Alan Glover (CCCBR Librarian) to make sure that set is complete and if not, help to do so
- any spare copies were then offered to Assoc members, for a nominal donation to the BRF, eg through Assoc notices and with bundles taken to Assoc and Branch meetings
- further spare copies were advertised to other collectors anywhere (there are quite a few) through any means possible - small ads, Ringing World, ringers chat lines, word of mouth, other Assoc Librarians and Archivists, CCCBR Librarian etc
- (you could use this Forum to advertise spares now!)
- this advertising also included requests for gaps to be filled in the sets to be retained - this did lead to several missing copies being donated to the sets
- ultimately the residue was put in my recycling bins - don't overload them or the bin men complain! (your Assoc should already have agreed through its GDPR policy about open disclosure of the information in the reports, so there should not be a great problem)

I hope this helps - good luck! It took time but was worthwhile. We raised some money for the BRF, established a clear policy on Assoc report retention so that complete will be retained and no gaps would occur in future. We also helped clear out various corners of ringing rooms, attics and garages!

Thanks AJ - yes, David may well have known but it sounds as if you may be unaware that he sadly is no longer with us. I may ask his wife whether she recognises the garage / workshop, but will see other responses I receive.

Returning to the subject of CO2 monitors, I mentioned a while ago one by Envisense. I ordered and received one of these via Ventilationland, the UK supplier. https://www.envisense.co.uk/?gclid=Cj0KCQiA4b2MBhD2ARIsAIrcB-TLppN1iXS3B42KHvxE-VubT9xcZw4XSModDeb-Yf_8nLeZ3Mb26FMaAqtyEALw_wcB

It looks a nice little unit and did at first sight basically what I expected and wanted. The display shows CO2 levels over a period of an hour or 12 hours graphically on screen. Regrettably, the data I downloaded to a PC was only at hourly intervals. This meant that for a normal ringing session of an hour or so, there was only one data point, perhaps 2. I eventually made contact with the supplier and they told me that the data downloaded is only at hourly intervals; this is not much use for our purposes. Fortunately, I was able to return it and have received my money back.

AJ - information is included on these web pages: whether there is anything specific for ringers, i son't know.

https://www.churchofengland.org/about/leadership-and-governance/general-synod/agendas-papers/general-synod-november-2021#na

So how are ringers finding ringing in masks now? After climbing the stairs and ringing for approaching an hour for a carol service yesterday, my FFP2 mask was horribly soggy! I am sure it is not doing the intended job in that condition!

Barbara - you may get more replies related to swift boxes and sound control if you start a new discussion, rather than continuing this one long one.

There is specialist information about swift boxes on websites such as those of the RSPB but of course they do not specifically consider bells! Logically, i would not like to be a swift in a box enclosed on the noisy side of the sound control! But I am not an expert on these installations.

Interestingly, there are at least 2 recent articles on swifts in towers in The Ringing World - see 2019 page 1172, and 2018 page 1224

The CCCBR also has information about sound control generally on the website here (towards the bottom of the Infrastructure tab):
https://cccbr.org.uk/resources/stewardship-and-management/

.... so what is it that gives the feeling that supporting the Scouts for church parade takes precedence over the bell ringing?

I am not saying that there is a "right or wrong", just asking the question?

Yes, people do notice, for example half muffled ringing gets comments such as "oh, the bells sounded different today"

AJ - but were they ringing the old standard 8 before covid struck?
If so, then jumping into pickled eggs post covid may put off some (perhaps the pickling spice may be too spiced).
Once confident with the old favourites, that may then be the time to move on gently.

If there has been a relapse from pickled eggs to the old 8, then gentle reminders are probably worth trying.

Two muffles on each clapper is what I assume. That may make securing them quite tricky with the buckles / velcro / laces etc. But someone like Philip Pratt may have another suggestion.

Barbara - I do not intend to comment on specific companies, but what I advise is go back to your request for advice and compare the quotes in detail. Look at each item side by side so that you can see the similarities and differences. How does each contractor meet the requirements that you requested?

I hope that you have found the information about bell projects on the CCCBR website here: https://cccbr.org.uk/resources/stewardship-and-management/
under the Major Projects tab.
In particular, the "Top Tips for bell projects" document summarises key points to consider.

If you would like more help, then contact me by email (smproatcccbrdotorgdotuk) - we may be able to help regarding comparing the contracts factually, but will not give opinions about the bell hangers. As you know, it is the church that makes the final decision on the contract.

AJ - there are better experts than myself but the type of filters required to remove virus is very expensive and would be simply uneconomic and not practical for churches (think of the labs that do such work and the filtration that they use). I think it must be woolly jumpers and keep ringing to keep warm!

Does anyone have experience of this one by Envisense? From the information online, it appears to operate stand alone, but may be connect to a PC to view the data more easily.

https://www.envisense.co.uk/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIz8ahy-7s8wIVumDmCh37pws1EAAYAiAAEgK9M_D_BwE

This would be easier to take to towers and lend out as it would appear to operate independently of any other any other equipment or technology that people own.

I think it may be 3216549870

What is anyone's view on which specific CO2 meter to buy please? What is their availability, ease of use, effectiveness, cost etc for such monitors? Are they stand alone or do they need a laptop / phone or similar to present the results.