Ringing Forums

Lucy’s point about adults being uncomfortable with things they can’t do well is true. Youngsters ‘learn things for a living’ as Phil Gay once said, but as they grow older they give up what they aren’t good at and only do things they are (reasonably) good at. For most people the last physical skill they learn is driving, in their late teens.
I remember being very frustrated and disappointed trying to learn hang gliding in my mid 30s. I expected to to be as natural as cycling but it wasn’t and I kept doing the wrong things. In the end I gave up (probably a good thing given the accident rate).
In your case I think you need to unpack what’s behind ‘I can’t do it’, which could mean two different things.
It could be if it is a simple statement that the keel ant skill/knowledge/knack is absent then the way forward is to work with them to identify what is missing and try to find explanations and exercises that could help to fill them.
Alternatively it might be an escape message, like the day I stood at the top of the hill without the courage to make a flight because I didn’t have confidence in my ability to fly safely. In your case it’s obviously not as safety fear, since he/she is willing to ring, but it could be a fear of failing to make whatever improvement step you are asking to be attempted because it feels impossible. If that is so you need to find out why and try to find a way round it or to break it down.
Either way with an adult you need to work together to find out what the problem really is. What is ‘it’ that can’t be done? Then explore the problem and find ways round it. You might need to come at it from different directions rather than straight on.
Good luck.

So if no softner = too hard, and normal dose of fabric softener = too soft, there is presumably an optimum dose somewhere in between.

Back in the 70s we found some ropes that were dirty and covered in old grease from leaky earrings. I put them in the washing machine (a twin tub so no fancy cycles). I can’t confirm that the sally colours merged into a pinky grey, it they didn’t soften, quite the reverse, they became too stiff to use.

that’s an interesting idea. I wonder how much demand there would be.
The nearest I know is something our branch has had for several years, a wedding volunteers list.
Anyone willing to be asked to ring for weddings (at other towers than their own) is on the list. Any tower that is short for a wedding can send details to the list and anyone interested replies to the sender.
About a quarter of our members are on the list, and it gets used occasionally, once or twice a year, though no one used it last year.

I used cell functions to do an indexed LookUp that returned the Transposition string for a given Place Notation — Stuart Palin

A bit of an aside, but I do that in a spreadsheet to help with composing. I enter calls in the appropriate place in the WBMH columns and it calculates all the coursing orders for me. I still need to inspect them but it saves all the rubbing out and recalculating when I make a change early in the composition.

being able to talk through points slowly, being able to judge if I am getting my message across and trying different ways of explaining points is more effective than the real-time comments that learners normally get from someone standing behind them — Paul Wotton

I wouldn’t class standing behind as mentoring, it’s just reactive support. However, following up after the ringing stops can be a good opportunity for a mentor to offer considered comment on the ringer’s performance, with more immediacy than when offering off line advice.

I think I’m saying that an open culture where everyone feels able to offer advice, and everyone listens to advice which is offered (not necessarily the same as accepting it!) is what we really need. — Richard Pargeter

Yes and no. That is a good culture, but I think it falls short of mentoring. In a culture of open comment people will comment when the need arises, but something significant is needed to trigger the comment. So advice is likely to be limited to situations where something has gone awry. But with mentoring there is an expectation of regular feedback.

To have a simulator installed suggests the tower has an interest in teaching beyond just regular practice nights — John de Overa

Sadly that's not true. Many towers install a simulator mainly to provide cheap sound control. And of those that might have installed it to use as a teaching and development tool, that is oftenh driven by a keen individual so after he/she becomes inactive the simulator sits unused.

I would also question whether a one to one mentor is what is needed or whether small group learning sessions, away from ringing time, — Lucy Chandhial

One to one mentoring already happens, informally or formally, so I’m surprised by the suggestion that it’s not needed.
I’m not aware of group mentoring outside of courses, but it could offer the benefits that come from shared learning. It could also be easier to match the numbers of available mentors to those needing mentoring.
With such obvious benefits I wonder why it is so rare.

do you envisage this operating within a band or across several bands in an area? That would affect the logistics.

What is out there tends to be either too simple and focussed on learning individual methods (ART) or too complicated for the target audience (W. G. Wilson) — John de Overa

There’s also a Learning Curve article: https://cccbr.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/200412.pdf

That sounds like the expectation might be that the existing associations are going to do the delivery. — John de Overa

That doesn’t follow. The societies are just smaller versions of the CC. They are federations that can support, sand do some things better done collectively across an area, but with ringing as it is currently organised, ie in tower bands, they societies are still removed from the coal face.

Does that mean that the idea of the CCCBR as a direct membership organisation has been dropped? — John de Overa

I don’t see why it should. That’s a separate question. Even with a DMO action (as opposed to ideas, resources, support, etc) would still be needed at local level.

i read the article yesterday and the two themes that stood out were:
1 Ringing is dying out. 2 Ringers no longer want to ring for three hours.
1 might attract some who would like to ‘rescue’ ringing from oblivion, but are thee likely to be the sort of recruits we need?
2 could put people off. Those of us who ring peals put up with the downsides because we are hooked on the positive aspects of ringing. But to anyone who hasn’t got to that point the thought of ringing for three hours would be a put off.

The New Ringer’s Book

courses can be part of the solution but not the whole. After attending a course the student needs to return to an environment where he/she can build on and consolidate what’s been learnt.

[reply="John de Overa;d496". Your situation illustrates part of the problem that Ringing 2030 is hoping to address. How much headway it will make is yet to be seen.
There are already places where that statement is true. If Ringing 2030 makes an impact it will be true in more places, which would surely make it worthwhile.
No doubt there will always be some places where it is not true, whatever we do. But I’m not sure watering down the vision statement would help.

a comment against most lines explaining the calculation behind it and details of what the expenditure is for — Jason Carter

That's a sensible suggestion. In many cases at the budgetary stage it will be a wet finger guess, but some indication of the thinking behind it would be helpful.

While it's good not to be too prescriptive mabout 'how' a job should be done, going to the other extreme isn't helpful. Someone new in post needs to know 'what' needs to be done. A definitive list is better than hoping the outgoing office holder will remember to mention everything, or that the incoming office holder will manage to work everything out (in time not to get caught out).
Guild rules are unlikely to have anything like enough detail. Typically they just list what roles there should be, with no indication of who does what.

we have comprehensive job descriptions of branch officers at: https://odg.org.uk/sdb/documents/other/JobDescriptions.pdf
The other place to look is the CC publication ‘Getting it right’, which is about running societies. I can’t find it in the CC Shop so maybe it’s out of print, but there must be some copies around.

most replacements involve a single rope, in which case the best guide is to make it 5he same as the ropes either side, or the average if they are different.