Ringing Forums

it sounds like an unfortunate situation, and maybe there are undertones that limit what can or should be done. But from the information given my thoughts are:
1. I assume the complaints about sound in the churchyard come from people living next yo it, not from those interred there.
2. How serious are the complaints? Was it an isolated one off moan from a one off situation or is it a real hardship in a recurring situation?
3. Could you improve the synthetic sound, for example better speakers, different pitch or a different audio file?
4. If you can get hold of a sound meter it would be worth measuring the sound levels at various points with and without the sound control shutters closed. 20dB difference is fairly effective.
5. Are the shutters significantly less effective on some sides than others? If so are the closing properly, and check for a poor fit or missing seals.

It can certainly be hard to develop as a ringer without a stable environment in which to practice. It's not clear in this case whether it's method ringing or just good striking that is the goal, but for someone not to feel safe after ringing 7 years (I assume ringing familiar, normal bells) suggests something is wrong.
The ability to handle a bell safely is the core skill on which everything else builds. If you don't feel confident that you can safely handle whatever the bell does then that distraction will undermine everything else you try to do.
As a teacher I see helping the learner to feel at ease with the bell, and to develop the confidence that goes with it, as an integral part of initial teaching - an essential stage on the learner's progression to 'flying solo'.

He was told that the bell was too light for him. When he reported this to me I immediately told him that the bell was not too light, he was not ringing it correctly — Phillip George

I agree he should have been told that ringing light bells isn't easy, that it requires a specific technique, and how to do it. Ideally he would have had another go with someone standing with him to give advice. However, we don't know the overall context, who was present, the overall needs of them practice, and so on. If he was too far out of his comfort zone and unlikely to succeed on that bell on that occasion even with advice then it was reasonable to say the bell was too light for him 'for now' since he needed a bit more practice to be able to ring it.

It would help to know how big it is. You didn't answer Lucy's question. My guess is not very big, but pictures can be misleading.

no, I think the frame is complete, if a little unusual. The straight piece would be bolted to the wall, probably vertical. That carries the pivot for one end of the headstock, and the curved piece coming form it, probable downward, carries the pivot at the othe end. That should be adequate to support the weight of the bell, and since it only swings through a small angle there shouldn't be large lateral forces.
All this is conjecture of course. I am simply reverse engineering what is visible.

definitely rung by swinging. The thin lever attached to the headstock would have the rope/cord/wire attached to it.
It would have been fixed to a wall with the thick part of the frame attached to it.

the people who post here - it seems to me that they spend at least as much time thinking about ringing as they spend doing it — John de Overa

We are a very biased sample. It's hardly surprising that a discussion list attracts people who think about things, and the subset who make comments have clearly thought about them enough to form a view they feel worth passing on.
Also bear in mind the relatively high entry bar to these discussions - first you have to make the effort to subscribe to the forum and then you have to be interested enough to check it periodically. Compare that with the email lists where once you have subscribed everything gets delivered to you, whether or not you have already commented on the topic, and the even lower bar of the Facebook groups where stuff gets fed to you without the need to express any interest.

I don't think anyone starts with a goal of being distinctly mediocre — John de Overa

I'm sure they don't. They might start with an ambition only to do modest things but I doubt that thought that they would never fully master them would not enter their minds - a bit like the difference between aiming to climb a small hill so you can stand on the top and admire the view having expended modest effort but finding yourself part way up a scree slope where it's a continual effort.

I agree about the need for a continuum from initial learning through coached development to self driven / peer supported development. That lifelong perspective was the guiding philosophy whe we wrote The New Ringer's Book, and it's something I try to impart to everyone I come into contact with.
But I think that's a bit tangential to the thrust of Linda's book, which is that the early stages of learning can lay the ground for developing change ringing, and that if they aren't, as is often dine, later progression to competent change ringing is made difficult if not impossible.

That's a variant I haven't met before. The wedge enables it to fit the inside of the bell while sitting against the clapper ball. Where I learnt to ring we had internal clapper stays but they had to be pushed up to fit the inside of the bell, and keeping them there relied on a tight grip on the clapper. Where I ring now we have clapper stays with lugs that fit over the lip of the bell and don't therefore need a tight fit on the clapper shaft. See: http://jaharrison.me.uk/thb/6-4.html#6-4i

it's worth looking at The Road to Ringiing, reviewed in last week's RW. They are based on Linda's own teaching practice, developed over a number of years.

there are many places where ringers are able to provide service ringing for several churches because the service times are different at each church. Assuming that special services are held at the same times as normal services that shouldn't be a problem.
Where it would be less easy is where services are at different churches on different weeks, presumably in joint beneficent where the priest is shared between them. Maybe they would have Harvest on different weeks too, but I don't know how they (priest or ringers) cope at Easter or Christmas.
I think practice augmentation and supporting service ringing are different. At a prazctice you need a greater number to stretch and develop people whereas service ringing just requires enough to ring something, which can, and probably should, be less stretching.

presumably you got some sort of distribution around that, however crude and approximate. That would be interesting to see.

I didn't comment on what was or wasn't 'achievable in many towers'. And I didn't say you 'had to be' a competent method ringer to teach basic bell control. But I find it hard to see how anyone who is not a competent method ringer, at least of basic methods, can hope to teach method ringing. I accept the idea of the teacher being a few pages ahead in the book (but that assumes the teacher is learning somewhere else to stay ahead) and more significantly it depends on what book. Anyone teaching wobbly plain hunt by the numbers is in the wrong book for teaching competent method ringing.

I think part of that requires that the wider ringing community accepts that you don't need to be a Spliced Surprise Major peal ringer to teach people Pain Hun — John de Overa

I don't recall anyone saying teachers must tring Surprise. Certainly advanced method ringing isn't a requirement to be as competent teacher of bell control, but I suspect that most competent bell control tutors (outside Devon call change towers) are at least competent ringers of basic methods. And I would be very sceptical about anyone who wasn't a competent method ringer teaching the rudiments of method ringing (hunting, dodging, place making, speed changes).

we have to be realistic about where we are now — John de Overa

Where we are now is not sustainable. That's the problem.

one of the strengths of ringing is exactly that span of ages — John de Overa

Agreed. But the span isn't the problem, it's the distribution. And it's not just that we will lose the majority of ringers over the next few decades and we can't replace them like for like. Recruiting more retirees might replace the retirees who learnt 10 or 20 years ago but it won't replace the mass of skilled ringers with 50 or 60 years of experience who play a dominant part in keeping everything going.

"New ringer" undersells it I think, there's material in there that's still very relevant after the initial stages. — John de Overa

The idea was that you get it when you are new (and that it is yours, not the tower's, hence the careful positioning of the apostrophe). But unlike previous books aimed at learners, it was intended to guide through the whole of the development process, and it specifically offered a vision of the rest of a potentially fullfilling ringing career.

I don't know whether all university societies have a one time subscription, but nine are affiliated with over 1100 members between them. Other societies that probably do are the professional societies but only two are affiliated with under 200 members between them. I suspect some of the semi or non territorial societies might also have a one-time subscriiption.

lots available online but it tends to be fairly advanced — John de Overa

There's plenty of basic stuff too. The problem is that new ringers aren't either fed it or encouraged to look for it. They are encouraged to accept the limited info they are given within the small tower bubble where they find themselves.

For example how to break down and actually learn methods, the importance of the treble - basically "The Dummy's Guide to Method Ringing" — John de Overa

Yes that's important but there is so much more than just 'how to' learn and ring them. How are the structured, how do they work, how do compositions work, how did methods evolve, and lots more.
When we wrote The New Ringer's Book our goal was to provide information they might not be told, in a way that would help them whether they had been taught well or not, and by whatever approach. As well as the skill based stuff there's a lot in it to lead them onto other things.
Every new ringer should have a copy (and I believe every student at the BSB has one as part of their pack) but those most in need are in towers that won't give it to them, or even tell them about it.

there's some interesting stuff there, with clear reference to ringing. But I think this, and many of the comments on the parent thread about peal ringing, misses the point by homing in on 'teaching' alone. There is plenty of scope to improve the way the skills of ringing are taught, but that's not enough on its own.
For people to develop into long term, capable, ambitious ringers who will make a positive contribution to ringing, they need to absorb the ethos of what ringing is about and a sense of being part of something bigger - of the wider ringing community and of the tradition and future of ringing. They also need to absorb a sense of the many different facets of ringing.
They don't get that from LTR, or from how they are taught to handle a bell, or from learning the mechanics of hunting. They absorb it in the way that any culture is acquired, from the people they come into contact with, notably other ringers.
If they are surrounded by ringers of low skill, low ambition and limited horizons then that is the culture they will absorb. And having absorbed it they will become part of it and help spread it to others. Once a band gets to that point it is very difficult for anyone to escape, given the lack of either opportunities or inspiration to do more. They will assume that 'this is what ringing is like' and either go with the flow or give up because it doesn't give the opportunity, challenge and satisfaction that they need.