Ringing Forums

Paul referred to 2030 info. on the CCCBR website - I suggest it is invisible unless you know where to look. I did not know & suggest nearly all others do not.

a) Please could the CCCBR add the details re the 5 different '2030' related 'Workgroups' to the links available under the 'Ringing 2030' heading (does it need to listed under both?) - I only found it by accident using the link above from Paul!

(At present the detail for all 5 Groups re 2030 it is under CCCBR / About / Workgroups - not under 'Ringing 2030'.)

b) Are the CCCBR communicating the 'Ringing 2030' project to both all CCCBR Reps & all the 'Guilds' etc. frequently? I think most do not know what CCCBR detail exists re Ringing 2030!

The CCCBR have stated they want more funds but not 'sold' what is happening now or soon.

'2030' is the wrong year for something needed now! Assumes no need to do anything before an event in 2030.

As the proposal is that the Levy per 'member' increases, the definition of 'Society Member' needs to be clearer - overall what I state below assumes ONLY those with Voting Rights are counted in the CCCBR definition in S1.

I suggest 'Membership' should exclude all those who DO NOT have a vote: so the count for Representative & Levy purposes would exclude: a) non-ringers / b) NRLM's / c) Learners not yet elected a Member / d) 'retired' ringers - not ringing & not paying a sub.& no voting rights.

That would be a better basis - more representative of the actual number of 'competent' ringers probably able to ring.

It is odd that the SRCY / CY definition includes assumption that the person is participating or attending.

The CCCBR Rule 4.2 a) states 'Society Membership'.

This refers to CCCBR Standing Orders - see Section S1 etc. on pages 12 & 13
https://cccbr.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/StandingOrdersdocument-Edition-12.pdf

S1 Society Membership
S1.1 For the purposes of the Rules the membership of a bell ringing society at any time (its
“Society Membership”) shall be defined with reference to the preceding calendar year (or
that society’s equivalent membership year) as follows :-
a) where a society has a membership subscription, its Society Membership shall be the
number of its members paying (or exempted from paying) membership subscriptions;
or
b) where a society has no membership subscription, its Society Membership shall be the
number of its members who either :-
(1) appeared on that Society's membership list, received one or more member
notices from the Society and are considered by that Society to be participating
members; or
(2)attended at least one event (including meetings, practices, peal attempts, dinners
and other gatherings of members) organised by that Society; or
c) in the case of the Veronese Association, its Society Membership shall be such number
as shall have been proposed by that society and approved by the Secretary.



Using the Salisbury Guild we have 2 or possibly 3 groups:

a) I assume for CCCBR purposes DO count as Members & Levy due re:
1) Ringing Members - aged 19 & over - (no upper age limit) - pay £10 annual (full) subs & DO have voting rights
2) Ringing Members - aged 12 -18 - pay £5 annual subs & DO have voting rights
3) Vice Presidents (free)- ringers but in some cases live elsewhere - no subs but DO have voting rights.
4) Honorary Life Members - no sub/ DO have voting rights.

b) I assume for CCCBR purposes DO NOT count as Society Members & NO Levy due re:
1) Learners (£3 fee) - not yet elected a Ringing Member at a Business Meeting - so not included? NO voting rights (May or may not still be a) Learning to ring / may be an Elected Ringing Member / may have ceased))
2) NRLM (£10 one-off) - assumed to live & ring elsewhere &, if still active, to be a member of one or more other Societies - so not included? No annual subs & NO voting rights
3) Associate Member (£5 per annum)- non-ringers & ringers who are not active - no subs & NO voting rights
4) Associate Life Member (Free) - a ringer now permanently prevented from ringing (age/health) - no subs & NO voting rights.

c) I assume for CCCBR purposes DO NOT count as Society Members & NO Levy due re:
(Elected) Ringing Members - aged under 12 (free) - NO annual subs & NO voting rights

Looking at the CCCBR website it states 'our Learn to Ring website' & 'our Learn to Ring form' but in fact both have links to the ART website - how can the CCCBR describe it as 'our' when it is run by ART?? Did ART agree to this?
https://cccbr.org.uk/bellringing/learn/

There is no sense in the CCCBR doing ANYTHING which ART has already developed & provided.

As an example ART off lots of guidance on Recruitment & Retention (what more is needed?):
https://ringingteachers.org/index.php?cID=625

I did not now Roger was making this comment & did not see it until I had posted:

https://www.ringingforums.org/discussion/439/is-art-the-answer-to-recruitment-training-retention-expand-art-carefully-from-now-to-deliver

We are both are saying - use & expand ART.

What could be a better solution than using a proven current solution?

Roger provided examples of Lottery funding.

We need to be clear that the funding required is re people not hardware.

The Lottery funding stream I suggested appears to be re people doing things together such as ringing - so the focus is on skills etc. & people working together - not the bells. That fits well with the need to help people in a community - impact on ringing in England but also in villages etc.. I assume there are 4,000 rings in villages & 1,000 in towns & cities. All are communities & nearly all need or will need new ringers soon.

The '50% new retained ringers by 2030' means we need 800 retained new recruits in the Salisbury Guild by the end of 2029. That would be good but from where & trained by who? So very many more competent teachers needed.

Most of the Salisbury Guild area is rural - compared to the past: churches with reduced viability, reduced congregations, reduced income for church running costs, reduced clergy, reduced service frequency, higher % of population aged over 70, more likely to be away - work or other reasons etc.., AND not many competent 'trained' ringing 'teachers'.

The potential 'training costs' per retained new recruit for the first 3 years of their ringing, to help them to a good standard, is high in terms of helpers required & there are some costs of good training. I expect the CCCBR do not plan to fund any 'direct' training costs within Guilds. So the Guilds need a funding model.

Possibly it would help if the CCCBR assisted in trying to add consistency of funding re 'Education' offered by Guilds - could anything be agreed as a target? As an example: Free training for Trainers - ideally refunded after they are 'qualified'? (Seems odd where the teachers have to fund their own training fees.)

Is charity funding by Lottery (& others - who?) a realistic source or not? National funding - one application,one contact, one bank account for Lottery must be easier for all than local applications.

It is surprising that most 'addicted' ringers give nothing as a financial legacy from their estate - for 'Education' or to bell funds. Is there potential where the ringer does not have family?

If we received any legacies for 'Education' in the Salisbury Guild that would be used as requested. Funds rec'd by the Salisbury Guild only go to the Bell Fund where that was the wish.

Roger would like funds held for bells to spent on ringers:

The Guild bell fund assisted transformation of many rings of bells since the 1970's - without funding many of those rings would be unringable or very difficult to ring for 80% of the Guild ringers. Projects in my Branch of only 11 rings include - a new ring / bells lowered in tower (tower sway) / new frames / new fittings / augmentations / tuned - every project has widened the range of new ringers who could ring to a higher standard than on the previous 'rough going' rings. So 'good' rings is a foundation for more ringers - I would not want any of the rings to go back to their previous condition!

I agree that spending money on rings which will probably only ever be rung by visiting ringers as a one-off grab is a waste of money.

The Salisbury Guild does not guarantee ANY of the £10 annual subs. goes to the bell fund (LEBRF - a charity) - at present a potential 50p per ringer is voted on at every AGM. So subs from 1750 members funded £800 in 2023. (I know some Guilds place most of the Subs. into the Bell fund. Why?)

The Guild bell fund rec'd £2,600 donations from Branches in 2023 (£1.50 per member). In future those donations could go to Education if the Branches decided.

The Guild is very likely to spend all it can on recruitment / training / retention in the future & to reduce the funds held (but the Reserves do not cover 3 years but just over 1).


Roger has stated Guilds have too much held in Bell funds. That is a broad statement & not always by choice of the Guild or Bell Fund as a Charity. The Salisbury Guild is not a charity but the bell fund (LEBRF) is - it held £332 in 1971 but £274,000 in 2023.

This included about £230,000 from Legacies (see notes d) to f)).The £230,000 includes balance of a surprise legacy of £128,000 in 2022/2023 which has transformed our ability to fund projects (aim is 20% grants rather than 10%) & our need to obtain receipts for bell projects.


Details re Salisbury Guild Bell Fund Charity (LEBRF)
a) We paid out £50,000 as grants in 2023 (£14,000 in 2022) Largest grant nearly £30,000
b) We had unclaimed promised grants for new projects of £51,000 at end of 2023.
c) We consider grants 3 times per year & are often 'early funders' - encourages others to give grants.
d) The current fund includes £117,000 which were legacies - we can't spend - all in COIF Investment Fund - about £3,300 receipts per annum.
e) We rec'd a surprise legacy from the estate of a family of ringers. £115,000 in 2022 & £13,000 in 2023 - not capital so spending over 5 to 10 years - depends on the projects arising. Now able to aim to give 20% rather than the previous 10% to bell projects. So all projects re rings of bells likely to get 20%.
f) as the £128,000 legacy will be paid out over a few years we have locked away funds at fixed rates & may lock away maturing funds when the level of grants made is known: £20k for 5 years , £40k for 3 years , £5k for 2 years , £55k for 1 year, £30k for 6 months & £19k is interest bearing instant access. This includes funds lent to the LEBRF to earn interest. Only £3k in a current account.

Lottery Funding available to the Ringing Community in England? (& elsewhere?)

We obtained Lottery Funding for bells - we should try hard to obtain lottery funding for training the ringers in England (similar schemes may apply in Wales & Scotland?):

Look at 'Reaching Communities England'

The application could cover: CCCBR cost of new resources (incl. people) / Guild training costs - train the trainer costs / possibly ART costs of training the trainer & admin to train the recruits anywhere in England.


Lottery Funding is potentially available - applications over £20,000 for projects of say 5 years for people with 'similar interests'. Applicant CCCBR as a Charity & funding for England.

Look at reaching Communities England -

https://www.tnlcommunityfund.org.uk/funding/programmes/reaching-communities-england#section-2

We fund projects and organisations that work to make positive changes in their community. By community we mean people living in the same area, or people with similar interests or life experiences. We offer funding that starts at £20,001.

We can fund projects or organisations that’ll do at least one of these things:

bring people together to build strong relationships in and across communities
improve the places and spaces that matter to communities
help more people to reach their potential, by supporting them at the earliest possible stage.

We want to be flexible and respond to your community’s needs. So we’ll offer funding:

for the long or short term
for a specific activity, or for broader costs to help your organisation or community
for one organisation or to bring organisations together
to support people, communities and organisations most affected by the cost-of-living crisis
to help organisations address the impact of the cost-of-living crisis on how they work, now and in the future.

Area England
Suitable for Voluntary or community organisations
Funding size £20,001 or more, for up to five years
Application deadline Ongoing

Central insurance should be cheaper & cover a wider area. One policy. Could the CCCBR arrange that & would claims be possible - as the Guilds etc are 'only' affiliates?

What can Marcus Booth advise?

I think many Guilds / ringers would be happy to pay a levy to the CCCBR rather than many Guilds having expensive cover which may not pay & may not be applicable to the person or location.

I agree re need to see whether insurance can be provided as a second level of cover where the policy held by the church where the bells are rung does not cover the claim. (to cover all visiting ringers including open days / quarter peals / peals who are members of a Guild paying a levy to the CCCBR for insurance). So this cover would not be the first claim & should be less expensive?

I would be in favour of a policy covering, as a minimum, the Guilds based in Engand & Wales etc. when ringers are ringing anywhere in England & Wales. Is insurance cover different in Scotland & NI. What about CI ringers & visitors to CI (which is now in our Diocese / Guild)?