Ringing Forums

Hello,

Hereford Diocesan Guild of Bellringers would like to keep in touch, I hope you already have our details.

Hello Angela,
Welcome to your new role and thank you for stepping up to the PRO role, which is massively important as part of Ringing 2030. I don’t suppose that you were expecting lots of replies to your post of over three weeks ago, or I hope not, otherwise you would be sorely disappointed? It was of course more of an announcement, and I hope you have plenty of direct contact made through your email, and warning, you will be from me, but don’t worry, it is merely a request for some assistance.

But in the meantime, I am going to mention something that I hope a wider audience may be able to help with. I have brought it to the Executives notice, via an email to Ernie on the 5th June, to which I still haven’t had a response to, that there was a CCCBR Publication from 1994, titled ‘Striking the right note’, that was produced by the then Public Relations Advisory Group, led by Alison Hodge. It doesn’t seem to be available any longer, and if it was, it would no doubt need some updating. Is it going to be updated and re published, as although so often it is often thought that we do not need printed copies, it can be available on line, I am probably considered old fashioned, but I still prefer to have something that I can instantly refer to when working on screen with something that I need that information for?
What do others think, do we need an up to date guide on Public Relations?
Do we need a printed version, or an online reference point on the CCCBR website?

What do others think, do we need an up to date guide on Public Relations?
Do we need a printed version, or an online reference point on the CCCBR website?

I think an up to date guide would be useful.
I even think it could be a curated collection of best practice examples from the many tower activities which have made use of social media, local print media and so on for recruitment and general awareness of bellringing over the last three years.

A great idea, and a lot of work, but that's what the workgroup is for! We have a meeting next week and we'll discuss this and many other issues and find a way to make marketing and PR work for all.

As an addition to Guidance, best practice examples are always a good way of highlighting what works, so great suggestion.

Angela, been trying to establish who is on the Marketing WG by searching CCCBR Website, to no avail. Seems likely to be overlap with Recruitment and Development WG, so would it be useful to have a link between the two?

It doesn’t seem to be available any longer — Bob Blanden

That happens with a lot of CC resources, and not just in print. The second time the website was reinvented a lot of resources were lost, including the advice I produced in 2012 for the PR Committee. The content is still on the archived version of the old website, but the way it was archived broke all the links between pages. There's an early version at: http://jaharrison.me.uk/New/Articles/PRAdvice.pdf . There were some changes after that version, but as Bob says, anything that old would need updating anyway.

Another thing I remembered when digging out the Guidance was a series of articles I wrote for the PR Committee, that didn't find favour with the powers that be and so were never published. Form your own view: http://jaharrison.me.uk/New/Articles/ReporterCalled.pdf

I like this overall message, and the examples of how to give yourself time to think and how to create positive answers.
In recent years we have caused our own general problem with Ringing Remembers and Ring for the King both starting with the premise that we need more bellringers to be able to ring all the bells (rather than ‘we have an exciting opportunity for more people to join us’).
The natural and authentic stories which come from ringers themselves, like the recent Guardian article on a new hobby after 60, tend to have a much more positive outlook and with the rise in social media it is easier for individuals to present what ringing means for them in a quick and visual way which, hopefully, shows the variety of ringers and reasons to ring so raises awareness for more of the public.

First, thank you to Bob Blanden for your comment about 'Striking the Right Note' that I produced a long time ago, before the days of on line information.

Like Bob, I would like to see a new and updated set of information on the same topic; it is desperately needed and I am also surprised that nothing has been produced by the CCCBR since the 1990s.

As Leader of the CCCBR Stewardship and Management Workgroup until last September, we produced our set of 3 online documents on Belfry Upkeep, Running a Tower and Belfry Projects. For the latter, we included some information on PR necessarily, simply because there was nothing else available from the CCCBR.

Regarding on line or printed, the Workgroup discussed at length, the question of on line or paper printed or both. Each approach has merits and drawbacks, but we decided the online approach was the optimum, even thought not everyone agrees. There were many reasons for our decision but the merits can be summarised as:
- readily updated or corrected
- easily expanded
- direct links to other sources
- latest information always available
- no printing, storage or distribution costs (time and financial)
- accessible to all freely (no cost, at any time, anywhere - almost)
- the medium used by virtually everyone nowadays and certainly preferred by the younger generations

Having had the experience of producing this set for the CCCBR, I agree that it would be very useful, and is actually essential, for the new PR Group along with the CCCBR Publications Group, to generate online information about PR for us all. PR is a fast moving and complex area that we all need now so online is by far the best medium. I am no longer up to date with PR matters but saw the need (and also mentioned it to the CCCBR) while producing the documents with SM Workgroup. I look forward to seeing it soon (and further online documents from the CCCBR) - thank you.

... and for those who are wondering, here are the links to our online documents:

Belfry Upkeep

Belfry Projects

Running a Tower

I am also surprised that nothing has been produced by the CCCBR since the 1990s. — A M Hodge

That’s not true. I don’t have a copy of the 1990s publication, so can’t directly compare them, but the online resource produced by the PR Committee in 2012 was definitely advice. It would still be available had the latest revamp of the website not thrown away so much content.
The pages are still on the archive site, but not really usable because as I explained the links were broken by the move.
For anyone interested, the move added ‘archive.’ before ‘cccbr’ in their URL but the links embedded in the still refer to ‘cccbr …’.
(And for anyone who wonders why the site used absolute links rather than relative links, which wouldn’t break - I can’t understand why they did that either.)
See: https://archive.cccbr.org.uk/services/pr/advice/

Thanks John. I don't recall ever seeing the PR Committee material, and presumably, neither had Bob Blanden. Even though newer, it surely needs updating, even if it could be retrieved and made available.

even if it could be retrieved and made available. — A M Hodge

That would be easy. If the pages were moved out of the ‘archive’ directory to their original location then the links woukd automatically work again.

Something for Angel Elliot and the Marketing WG to get their teeth into and discuss at their meeting this week, hopefully. Better involve a website techy also.

I hadn’t until John kindly pointed it out to me, now it it needs to be available in an updated version, for everyone.

Better involve a website techy also — Bob Blanden

Decide what you want first. Words and pictures aren’t high tech.

It is sometimes dangerous to presume, but was with regarding moving something from an ‘archived’ website to the current one, but I am prepared to acknowledge that my ability isn’t possibly sufficient to even assess the technical requirement to carry that out. Appreciate that words and pictures are not rocket science, and we do not need the screen to be whirling around.

I wrote, and illustrated, 'Engaging with the Public' in 2018 because I saw a gap in helping and encouraging ringers and towers to do their own publicity, including the use of social media.
It's still available here: https://cccbr.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/CCCBR_Engaging_with_the_Public_1-1.pdf

Lots of good ideas there, but my reaction was the same as when I first read it. So many bullet points can be overwhelming.
I wonder whether it’s the ‘what to do’ that holds most people back or the lack of a passion to engage with non ringers.
You have that passion and it shows in many of the things you’ve done, but a lot of ringers don’t seem to. Mostly it is passive lack of interest but I’ve been in meetings where people have vehemently said there is no point investing in PR that doesn’t get (immediate) recruits. It’s a transactional mindset that wants to take recruits from the community but is unwilling to engage with the majority who will not become ringers.

Thanks John. Yes, I agree, too many bullet points for nowadays. I might revamp it sometime.
Indeed, it's very difficult encouraging motivation to do publicity - why I try to provide simple ideas and resources to make it easier, although it's not easy keeping them all up-to-date!
The most recent DerbyDA resource is the Bellringing Derbyshire portal, and business cards with its URL and QR code. I'm always heartened when I see a ringer carrying one in their wallet, ready for interested non-ringers wherever they come from (not just Derbyshire).
We also have matching vinyl outdoor banners, which are very versatile and extremely easy to transport and store, and Instagram (young people!) as well as Facebook, and use Nextdoor. More info.

business cards with its URL ... in their wallet, ready for interested non-ringers wherever they come from ( — Susan Hall

I introduced them for our tower over a decade ago, and I've given them to all manner of people I've met on my travels because although it's our tower website much of the content is generic and aimed at non-ringers, including someone who walked into a tower while we were ringing near Birmingham a few days ago. I'm not sure how many of the rest of the band use them though.
BTW did you know they are called Push Cards? I discovered that when I was sponsor for the Reading University post grad branding project.

Gosh! Well done. I had no idea that ringing promotional cards (as opposed to flyers) were already being used elsewhere until someone recently mentioned that they use them locally. The Bellringing Derbyshire portal is also mostly generic.
I hadn't heard the term 'Push Cards' before, so googled it. It appears to be used mostly for political business cards. Business cards can also be called 'Palm Cards'. So perhaps the name differs depending on use and country (and what people are used to)?

I introduced them for our tower over a decade ago, and I've given them to all manner of people I've met on my travels because although it's our tower website much of the content is generic and aimed at non-ringers — John Harrison

Likewise. I have our tower 'business card' (inc QR code) in my wallet and in the ringing room which I hand out when the opportunity arises. Similarly, although it is for our tower website there is a lot of general information too.
We also have QR codes on our notices on the church notice boards which links to the website and a recording of the bells.
Emails to the village email group about our ringing also include a link to the website.

I've been trying to encourage the HDGB to get some simple business cards for recruitment, they can easily be carried by a lot of ringers, and we have a few really enthusiastic members who will talk to everybody and anybody about ringing given half a chance. They often have a positive/interested reaction from members of the public, so it would be a really simple way of backing up that initial conversation. The next step is then having a suitable website/landing page for non-ringers, something we are trying to work on, and then, identifying competent teachers of bell-handling.

The Gloucester & Bristol DACBR have produced a Business Card, initially for a large Scouting event, as easy to put in a pocket. Importantly, there is a QR code on it that provides the direct link to the website,

All very well having business cards, but most Guild and Association websites are aimed at ringers and are difficult for non-ringers to navigate. I'm also worried about all this old advice. Yellow YoYo produced some excellent strategic advice for the Council two years ago https://cccbr.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Bell-ringing_Future-Vision-document-_24.08.23_Final.pdf

The Council seems to go round in circles and not move forward. We been talking about a lot of these issues since the Council meeting in Lincoln 25 years ago, and the Wellesbourne Conference and the regional 'Change Ringing for the Future' conferences ten years ago etc. have come and gone. It's strange that the Council financed the setting up of the Ringing Foundation, which levered in significant other resources and then funded the establishment of ART and the Learning the Ropes scheme. Looking at this year's AGM papers there's now talk of identifying non-ART teachers.

Would the RYA or similar organisations not focus on promoting their schemes? If we're going to recruit many thousands of under 30's each year, were going to need to move with the times and have a consistent message. However my experience with the mobile belfries is that many users use them in a very amateur way, so spreading best practice is essential. There are also issues in following up enquiries as so many towers these days so not have active bands.

There are also issues in following up enquiries as so many towers these days so not have active bands. — Roger Booth

Or if they do, the opportunities for progress top out at PH / PB5. That's my concern about the current CCCBR strategy - it seems to be very front-weighted, with far less attention being paid to the much harder problem, making sure the people we attract get good quality training and a satisfying experience. If we can't retain people and get the very best out of them, what's the point?

If we can't retain people and get the very best out of them, what's the point? — John de Overa

Before we veer too far off topic, the point that I was trying to make was that we’ve been kicking around the looming problem of the ageing ringing population for at least the last 25 years, and have not made significant progress. But, its now here. The number of active ringers has dropped by around 25% since 1990, and the majority of ringers are now aged over 60, if not 70, making it even more difficult to turn things round.

We can learn a lot from what we have tried in the past, and what has not worked, but we need an open mind and fresh ideas in a changed world. So much in ringing is outdated and inconsistent. Many tower bookshelves are stacked with textbooks that were written in the 1960’s, and the Ringers Handbook was first published in the 1930’s! Many ringing chambers have not seen a fresh coat of paint for decades.

It’s not going to be the Central Council that turns things round, it’s going to be the many ringers at grass roots level that will need to do the hard work. The Central Council can provide the central support, but that will only work if the people on the ground take it up. It will need public relations officers, teachers, tower captains and Guild and Association and District and Branch Officers all working together, year after year.

There is an issue at the moment that many of the experienced ringers ring surprise, but there’s a squeezed middle between plain hunt and surprise, which many people who wish to progress find difficult to cross. In the past there were fewer surprise ringers and there were more opportunities to ring intermediate methods to facilitate progression.

Feedback from those that responded to a questionnaire sent to Ring for King learners was that many of the experienced ringers seemed to prefer to ring with each other, rather than new ringers. However, whilst it is the experienced ringers who hold office at tower, district/branch and guild/association level, it is these new ringers that are the future of ringing. Many have skills from outside that would be valuable. As CRAG identified, communication from the centre down to these people at grass roots level is hampered by the many ‘gatekeepers’ in the way.

Therefore, perhaps the most important thing that the new PR Workgroup could do is to find ways of reaching grass roots ringers, especially the new ones that have taken up ringing since Covid. In my experience they are often very keen, have useful skills, and would like to help turn things round. Otherwise they will just give up in frustration and put their energies elsewhere!

It’s not going to be the Central Council that turns things round, it’s going to be the many ringers at grass roots level that will need to do the hard work. The Central Council can provide the central support, but that will only work if the people on the ground take it up. — Roger Booth

I agree. But much of the information that comes out from the CC either never gets to the grass roots or seems to be aimed at elite ringing and is therefore irrelevant to them. PR is pointless unless it targets the right audience and is backed up by resources, which I believe should be potential recruits / early stage ringers.

There is an issue at the moment that many of the experienced ringers ring surprise, but there’s a squeezed middle between plain hunt and surprise, which many people who wish to progress find difficult to cross. In the past there were fewer surprise ringers and there were more opportunities to ring intermediate methods to facilitate progression. — Roger Booth

Exactly. Surprise ringers can ring intermediate methods, the problem is that many of them only want to ring with other Surprise ringers and that's in a rapidly shrinking pool, as you pointed out. Of course people are free to ring with whoever they wish but the results are entirely predictable - I do get a little irked hearing some Surprise ringers bitching about how there are few opportunities to ring at that level nowadays when they've sat on their hands for the last couple of decades and watch it happen.

Not only does the current situation make it difficult / impossible for those who are bloody-minded enough enough to want to keep progressing, it's an insurmountable barrier for those who are capable of making the transition but don't feel motivated enough to put up the necessary fight, which reduces the pool of potential "improvers" even further.

Feedback from those that responded to a questionnaire sent to Ring for King learners was that many of the experienced ringers seemed to prefer to ring with each other, rather than new ringers. However, whilst it is the experienced ringers who hold office at tower, district/branch and guild/association level, it is these new ringers that are the future of ringing. — Roger Booth

That's only going to happen if they feel valued and enfranchised. The view from the trench I'm sat in is that the CCCBR is run for elite ringing, by elite ringers. And many associations are effectively moribund, so salvation is not going to come from that quarter either.

I though the Cast of 1000 idea was a good one, but it didn't appear to make the transition from virtual to real practices and seems to have died a death? The other issue was that it assumed the problem was at the Surprise Major level whereas it's now at least as prevalent at the PB/PH level. My own tower has exactly that challenge at the moment, we are struggling to move on from simple Minimus methods to Minor but we don't have enough people at the right level to do so. We are working on it but there are many other towers in the same situation.

Therefore, perhaps the most important thing that the new PR Workgroup could do is to find ways of reaching grass roots ringers, especially the new ones that have taken up ringing since Covid. In my experience they are often very keen, have useful skills, and would like to help turn things round. Otherwise they will just give up in frustration and put their energies elsewhere! — Roger Booth

Yes, they will, and there's a short window in which to engage them. And if they can't keep making progress, they'll quickly get fed up and put their energies elsewhere anyway.

It’s not going to be the Central Council that turns things round, it’s going to be the many ringers at grass roots level that will need to do the hard work. — Roger Booth

Here here, Roger! Iv'e just explained this to the ringers in my district, using material from the Ringing 2030 business plan.
Unfortunately, I am not confident that the Ringing 2030 project (now only 5 years left to achieve their enormous targets!) will be filtered down to association level, let alone local towers.
The business plan is a high level document but has some useful pointers for all ringers, and although this is a generailisation, my opinion is that a lot of tower ringing lacks leaders with the foresight and determination to make any difference.
I know this sounds defeatest but sadly only a few people are listening. I risk assessed my tower to determine what we have to do within the next five years to prevent decline. We are responding to this but it is difficult and a constant effort. We might not be successful!