Ringing Forums

Yes, mine was an entirely personal view of that which I have witnessed. Until about seven years ago, until I relinquished a DofMusic role at some religious place, I would occasionally go up to join in ringing, after finishing some organ practice, and before 9pm. In general the standard of ringing was awful - and there seemed to be no useful ambition*. The impression I had was that, while there were occasionally some learners, some did not wish to learn. It is this which seeded the despair. Further afield (or, at least, as far as I might care to drive), things seem similar - so one heistates to use the petrol.

When I started to ring, there was no tolerance of wasting time - one had to be alert even if not actually ringing, and as a learner striking had to be the sine qua non, though, of course, method ringing came very soon after. IIRC, the expectation was that at least one new method would be learnt offline before every practice. This, to my mind, gave a purpose to going there at all - part from the proximity of some excellent pubs, mostly mercifully devoid of any kind of music!

* - any discernible ambition felt as though the aim was to crash through something trivial and that was sufficient.

Yes, that did seem, in the past to be the case.

I used to be a member of some associaitons/guilds, but not for many years now. The 'despair' makes, often, the prospect of going anywhere in this locality uninviting, as a result I slighty know (or, perhaps, might recognise in context) some ringers around here, but very few. Others have come and gone.

My impression is that the practice situation is the old, all comers (or, in fact very few) model. I do not know in which association or guild I live - even seven or so years ago (the last time I went rinigng) such things did not seem relevant. From this location, I have no idea where there might be any enticing ringing.

I think for practices at this level to work they have to be focused rather than general, and have to have experienced ringers specifically invited to go to them. We gave up general practices in the St Martin's Guild some time ago, and we now only have practices which are for specific purposes or for specific people, and the helpers are invited. A practice would not go ahead if there were insufficient experienced helpers. It is quite common to have very experienced ringers at such practices because they know they will be of value. — Simon Linford

I think it's difficult to stress just how important that is, I don't go to "general" branch practices as they are of little use to anybody, be they neophyte or wizard.

However even focused practices need careful management to avoid the same problems. Recently two of the associations round here have both set up their own Surprise Major/Minor practices. Unfortunately they both quickly became a waste of time if you weren't a Major ringer, as all the people trying to learn Minor ended up being rammed together into the same touches, with predictable consequences. I quickly stopped going to those as well.

So, targeted practices are a must, but they need to be well organised ones.

To help answer that, it would be fascinating to have a 'level of complexity' axis to the analysis ... — PeterScott

In my early days of peal-ringing, the standard peal of minor consisted of:
Cambridge S
Oxford TB
Kent TB
Single Oxford
Double Oxford
St Clements
Plain Bob

Peals of minor, today, are mostly at least 7 surprise methods.

I'm a "returning ringer" ... I took a 4 year break, mainly due to relocation.
I've not rung any peals (confession) ... am I still welcome?
But I've rung a few quarter peals!

I really enjoy ringing quarters, or just complex methods with touches!

But I'm really only ringing basic methods these days, and although I love it, I wish I could ring more advanced methods. But I do feel loyal to supporting my own band, and I have a job.

However, to get more peals (and quarter peals) we need to provide opportunities for ringers to ring more advanced things.
We need to provide more stepping stone options for people

@Martyn Bristow you are definitely welcome, most bands are very happy when a ringer returns and doesn’t need to start at basic handling but can jump straight in to ringing with the band.
I agree with you that for people to ring quarter peals and peals the stepping stone opportunities are needed. The simple issue is that proportionately there are now more people needing the opportunity and less people available to support the opportunities (at surprise level at least) compared to 30 years ago and many of those who could support (and do support) are reaching an age where they don’t want to ring so often or where they want to focus on ringing in a way which pleases them more of the time.
So the leaner generations of ringers have to work through the learning curve of more advanced ringing with less support and greater risk that it might go wrong and this means bands advance at a slower pace.
Having a local band to support and a busy life can limit the chances to advance faster and Associations can try to offer focused practices for advanced ringing but it will still need people to commit, to travel, to support so it does become more stretched when the pool of ringers gets smaller.
There are no easy solutions and your dilemma is understood by many ringers.

Thanks well I’m definitely keen to progress to surprise and peal ringing. But the options are limited. I can venture to towers further afield but *work* … currently.

We definitely need to think about more branch level practises, but that’s going to need a critical mass of people to pull together.

It needs leading from the association level, as my branch isn’t even ringing quarter peals.

It needs leading from the association level, as my branch isn’t even ringing quarter peals. — Martyn Bristow

Martyn, I don't think associations are very good at this. It's best to organise things yourself if you can. It's helpful if the branch is organising surprise practices but why not try to get that "critical" mass together yourself. Ringing doesn't have to be under the auspices of the branch or association.

I’d agree that Ringing associations might not be filling this role at present. But with their footprint they could have that impact and authority.
Finding your own group, while it sounds good would be harder, especially for lesser connected ringers.
It would be good if we can facilitate these groups

while a motivated individual may be able to make his/her own opportunities, that can't be done in a vacuum, it relies on exploiting existing infrastructure, whether by finding a 'good tower' where progress can be made or collectively organised practices. However it needs to be regular. A society may have more resources than a branch, but it is also more remote so likely to involve more travelling, not just for the 'learner' but for everyone. That might be fine for occasional courses but progress requires regular practice, making local solutions more practical.

Finding your own group, while it sounds good would be harder, especially for lesser connected ringers. — Martyn Bristow

Martyn, I agree, of course. Have you canvassed your local branch on this. Part of their role is to help ringers at all levels.

Our local branch itself is very primarily focussed on call changes and plain hunt.
I think the branch has only 1 other ringer who can ring peals …
Whilst I would, if I have the time, engage more and search them out. My point is we aren’t encouraging those who don’t have the confidence.

I was going to say exactly the same thing. The District/Branch is the effective unit of organisation really, and if that isn't working the onus falls on towers and individuals to get things organised themselves. Martyn highlights quite how difficult that is if there is a lack of critical mass or motivation at any organisation level that currently exists. @Martyn Bristow your branch or district is not unique, and actually there aren't many ringing associations who see their role as facilitating the development of their members by providing peal ringing opportunities. That is left to the 'market' and the 'market' comprises people who want to organise peals and need to find ringers for them. Once you're 'in' and known to be a peal ringer it tends to open you up to more opportunities.

Some associations do have annual peal days which encourage peals for people who are keen but don't know how to break in. The Lichfield & Walsall are a good example - I think they have a peal week to encourage members to ring peals and encourage the ringing of firsts above all else.

There are not many peal organisers who will actively look for people to who to provide opportunities. Most are operating with quite closed groups, where they know what they are getting. Or they might be motivated by providing opportunities to young ringers they wish to encourage. There are some though and it is a question of finding who they are in your area.

So the leaner generations of ringers have to work through the learning curve of more advanced ringing with less support and greater risk that it might go wrong and this means bands advance at a slower pace. — Lucy Chandhial

I think some generations of ringers aren't just "lean", they are completely absent. Ringing is suffering the consequences of decades of complacency around recruitment and it's going to be difficult to recover from that.

It needs leading from the association level, as my branch isn’t even ringing quarter peals. — Martyn Bristow

Don't get your hopes up, associations are just a collection of branches, it's the same people and mindset.

Martyn, I don't think associations are very good at this. It's best to organise things yourself if you can. It's helpful if the branch is organising surprise practices but why not try to get that "critical" mass together yourself. Ringing doesn't have to be under the auspices of the branch or association. — Phillip George

I've lost count of how many times I've seen that suggested and it's completely unrealistic. There are few ringers in my area at my level or just above, then there's a huge "hole", then a small number of "black zone" ringers (see my comment above). And the numbers at each of those groups is falling. How are people to get "critical mass" when increasingly there simply aren't enough ringers to do so?

while a motivated individual may be able to make his/her own opportunities, that can't be done in a vacuum — John Harrison

Quite.

Martyn, I agree, of course. Have you canvassed your local branch on this. Part of their role is to help ringers at all levels. — Phillip George

Many of them seem to have lost sight of that and are (literally) just Old Boys clubs.

Thanks, interesting perspectives.
I’m definitely keen to help find and facilitate.

I think there’s definitely an opportunity we could try to fix

It's good to have a positive approach. There are lots of things wrong with ringing! The old boys clubs are not listening, they have had their day and aren't interested any more. It takes individuals to make things happen, so take the initiative and organise something. I remember the first peal I organised. I miscalled it!! but it was a success in every other respect and it gave me a small network of ringers to build on. Perhaps start with quarter peals, not everyone is peal fit nowadays!. I suppose what I am saying is that we should be excited about our ringing. Enthusiasm is infectious, its too easy to say we've done all this before.