Ringing Forums

In Yorkshire, after 30 years continuous membership, members can apply for Life Membership once they reach the age of 65. Also those who "are unable to continue active ringing" may become Life Members, and we have a form of honorary Life Membership for those who have "rendered outstanding service". Life Members may pay the annual fee (£12) if they wish.

There was a proposal about five years ago to abandon Life Membership, but it was not passed.

In the Middlesex Association after paying subs for 40 years you become a life member and don’t pay subs any more.
You can also purchase life membership, it currently costs equivalent to 20 years of today’s subs price. But generally it is not encouraged because it requires a certain amount of accounting headache and it’s much easier to have annual subs, reflecting more closely the involved and active ringers.

We’ve not considered taking away the 40 year benefit for life membership but I guess in theory you could introduce it gradually by letting people know that if they’ve paid less than 20 years so far then they will need 50 years instead of 40 to get life membership and if they’ve paid less than 10 years then they should no longer expect life membership.
I don’t see any reason to take away the long service benefit but it could be phased out if an Association wanted to.

Since people are more likely to move from of a society area much more often now than was the case decades ago when most society rules were written, is length of membership the point that should be acknowledged or the contribution that someone has made to the society?

I have no evidence but a feeling that ringing offers fewer awards / accolades etc than many activities and pastimes do.

I like the idea of recognising contributions rather than "just" long service.

The type of membership that I really don't see the point of (any more) is "non-resident member" - i.e. pay an annual subscription just once to ring a peal for an association, never pay again but magically become a life member! Unfair, unreasonable, and a GDPR nightmare...

@Steph @Alison - Non-resident members are a way to try to keep contact with ex members who have moved away, possibly temporarily. Students are the first ones that come to mind. It also helps to keep in touch with those of older years who revisit their old haunts occasionally. I think your example of "just once to ring a peal for an association, never pay again but magically become a life member" is a little extreme however. Perhaps associations ought to rule that qualifying years in part or in full must be "resident"? Something along the lines of 50 years, 25 of which must be a resident member.

I can't see any reason why it should be a GDPR nightmare.

ODG used to have life members, where after a number of years you got free membership. Around ten years ago that was abolished, partly because with an aging demographic the number was expected to rise. At the same time the a Guild created a category of distinguished membership, awarded to a member who has been a Resident Ringing Member for at least 30 years and who has given mecritorious service to the Guild or a Branch. This init automatic, and has to be formally proposed, justified and approved.

How on earth do you keep track of them?? For Sussex at least, these people haven't actually signed up as members, just handed over 20 p at some point, sometimes several decades ago (genuinely). And/or they were paid-up resident members for a few years and then moved away, automatically (under our current and previous rules) becoming non-resident members "without further payment" (i.e. we no longer have contact). Although we (SCACR) have records of peals, I don't believe we have complete records of who these non-resident "members" are. There's probably be a list (likely incomplete) of names but I doubt there are contact details (someone may correct me if I'm wrong...). Individuals need to be identifiable (there are multiple different people with the same name, for example), the data kept about them should be accurate, and they should have the opportunity to check this data and request that it is corrected where necessary. So maybe "nightmare" was a bit strong - "somewhat dodgy" (no pun intended!) might be more accurate. A pain in the proverbial anyway.

I have been involved in membership matters from old students' associations to railway preservation societies, and life memberships do cause problems.

When societies are wound up, life members get upset that they are losing their 'investment'. Let's say the Anytown & District Guild wants to merge with the Countyshire Association, as the two societies no longer have critical mass individually. However, many of the life members are life members of both associations, but no longer derive the benefit of being life members of both societies. Likewise, if a Direct Membership Organisation was introduced, there would be no way to equitably transfer life memberships should any particular association decide to call it a day.

Often, the loss of annual fees causes a severe monetary loss for the society. For many years, a (non-ringing) society I am a member of offered life membership for £300, accounted for as £15 per year over 20 years as opposed to £20 per year plus fee increases. Those who purchased it for £300 are 'paying' their last £15 this year; meanwhile, new members now pay £43 annually (for various good reasons). In another society I'm a member of, they coughed up something ridiculous in 1972 like 50p, and haven't paid since. Life membership probably makes sense if they are past retirement age and it's a decent lump sum, but otherwise it causes nothing but grief financially.

Since people are more likely to move from of a society area much more often now than was the case decades ago when most society rules were written, is length of membership the point that should be acknowledged or the contribution that someone has made to the society? — Alison Hodge

I imagine this will increasingly become an issue, especially for those who have been ringing since they were young. I can't justify five guild memberships, so I flit between guilds as needed. I don't think I will ever qualify under continuous or even discontinuous membership rules!

How on earth do you keep track of them?? — Steph Pendlebury

We have a similar issue at the Leeds University Society. All persons who have held any sort of membership automatically becomes an honorary life member as per our constitution. We don't hold any constitutions from before the 1990s but the provision probably goes some way back. We have no list of such members, so our return for the Central Council is based on our alumni mailing list, which is only probably 1% of the possible total members. Simply put, we can't keep track of them and if someone turns up and wishes to exercise the privileges of an honorary life member, the young adult who has been in the society for less than a year, potentially, will have no choice but to afford them said privileges.

We have no list of such members, so our return for the Central Council is based on our alumni mailing list, which is only probably 1% of the possible total members. — Tristan Lockheart

That's a separate issue. The membership declaration to the CC is used to determine the contribution it should make, notably its affiliation fee. For societies with an annual subscription it is fairly clear cut, and obviously relates to ability to pay. For societies that don't have an annual fee that doesn't work so the membership is based on the number of 'active' members, typically the number who participate in one or more of the society's activities during the year. As well as being 'fair' that also avoids the problem of members the society has lost track of, because they aren't counted.

if all you know about a member is a name then you don't have a GDPR proble, because it only applies to personal data that you hold. If you don't have any you can't lose it and you can't get it wrong. If anyone did pop out of the woodwork and demand to know what info you had it would be an easy question to answer.

In any case i think GDPR is often misunderstood and sometimes used as a reason for not doing things. The basic principles are that the data has to be consented to, appropriate to what it's being used for, held securely and deleted when there is no further reason to keep it. It does not say you can't hold membership information.

There's an entire industry which relies on GDPR scaremongering to try to get you to buy their products and services. Following what's laid out on the ICO website is all you actually need to do.

The basic principles are that the data has to be consented to, — John de Overa

That's certainly true. I suspect many of those who quote it haven't actually read what it says.

GDPR is often misunderstood and sometimes used as a reason for not doing things — John de Overa

That's not actually true. Consent is only one of the legitimate reasons for holding data, and not the first choice advised.

That's not actually true. Consent is only one of the legitimate reasons for holding data, and not the first choice advised. — John Harrison

That's not what I meant, I meant that GDPR compliance is often considered to be so scary it prevents people from doing things like setting up electronic membership systems, or email distribution lists.

That's not what I meant, I meant that GDPR compliance is often considered to be so scary it prevents people from doing things like setting up electronic membership systems, or email distribution lists. — John de Overa

I agreed with that main point in the first part of my comment, but I wanted to correct the misconception that everything has to have explicit (ie written) consent.

On the principle of having free Life Membership for long-serving members: imho, it's a pleasant gesture to those whose ringing-energy might be starting to decline, as well as expressing thanks for a long period of support for other ringers.

The use of subscription monies seems relevant. In Yorkshire we spend 10% on a printed Annual Report, (once over 20%). It has lots of information, which in days-gone-by would have been hard-to-come-by from other sources: nowdays it is all more accurate and timely online. We once had members' addresses, and I keep the 2017 edition to-hand on the bookshelf, as that was the last that included them: while, iirc, it was GDPR-worry that terminated the practice, GDPR is a separate issue to how we collectively appreciate long-service to the Association.

More important is the 40%, currently £4.80, that goes directly to the Bell Restoration Fund. The Fund has separate governance from the YA, as charities are required to have. Clearly we encourage all members to contribute, and that particularly applies to Life Members who do not volunteer a subscription. We might do even better for the Fund if we made it easy for all members to contribute any amount they choose (nowt to ...), with their YA subscriptions, and separate from them. That would recognise the legal separation, as well as meeting the Fund trustees' criticism that an expanding proportion of Life Members reduces the funds they have available for bell restoration.

Returning to my starter question: Please could we have a reply from Kent?

We might do even better for the Fund if we made it easy for all members to contribute any amount they choose — PeterScott

We've gone a bit OT but Sussex have gone online this year for all* renewals and just before the payment point you get to donate to the BRF and two other funds, if you so wish. Given the association membership is so cheap (£8) I would hope that donations to the other funds will be significantly higher than before, as donating is easy.

* all, except those that can't and maybe those whose principles about not doing stuff online are over and above the additional admin they know it causes for volunteers who have process their stuff manually [maybe! Certainly the case in other non-ringing organisations I've been involved with....]

@Stella Bianco - I don't speak on behalf of KCACR, but from the 2022 rule book:

(iii) Honorary Life Members
In recognition of services to ringing a person may be nominated by the
General Committee for election as an Honorary Life Member. The
election of an Honorary Life Member must be approved by at least two
thirds of the Members present and voting at an Annual General
Meeting. Honorary Life Members shall be recognised as Practising
Members.
(iv) Non-Resident Life Members
A ringer not residing in the Association’s area may be elected as a Non–
Resident Life Member on payment of a single subscription equal to 75%
of the Practising Member Annual subscription.
(a) Non–Resident Life Members may be elected at a District meeting
or as authorised in Rule 11.
(b) A Practising Member whose subscription is not in arrears shall on
leaving the Association’s area have the option to become a Non-
Resident Life member without further payment. On return to the
Association’s area Practising Membership may be resumed on
payment of the appropriate subscription. Alternatively, they may
continue to be a Practising Member on payment of the Practising
Member annual subscription.

There is no provision for automatic life membership, the only two classes are those above.

The KCACR rules (which cover membership) are online here [PDF].

Recently (2019) there was a scaling back of free/discounted membership - you now have to be over 80 to get free membership - and the option of purchased life membership was withdrawn. Existing life members continued as life members.

"When societies are wound up, life members get upset that they are losing their 'investment'. ... Likewise, if a Direct Membership Organisation was introduced, there would be no way to equitably transfer life memberships should any particular association decide to call it a day."

Well they are free to propose amendments to the conditions of any change/merger and make their case, or to vote against the proposed change. But ultimately if the society ceases to exist then all memberships cease. In one regard they have had their life membership honoured - they were a member for the life of the society (in rather the same way as a lightbulb's lifetime guarantee).

As someone closely involved in setting up the new membership system - responding to your *: how did you guess?!

My father is the secretary of a local historical society and my mother does the newsletter. I'd imagine that their membership demographic would have a similar shape to most ringing associations (probably with even fewer under 60s).

They introduced the option to pay membership, books etc by card at their AGM. I think my dad said not one person paid by card. However he did have to bank a dozen cheques and the quarterly newsletter is still a printed booklet, despite it costing £10 a year per member to produce.

With the examples above of the problems societies face managing life memberships, mergers and (often unnecessary) fear of GDPR it is a wonder more don't fold due to the stubbornness of their own members!

Well done for your efforts, they show modernisation is possible

Mr P has done the lion's share of the work - I've mostly just been proofreading things! BIG thanks to the Surrey Association for all their guidance and help!!

Surrey Association has the following rule for peal ringing:

“ A peal can be recognised as having been rung for the Association provided that the majority of the band are members of the Association (eg. on 8 bells 5 ringers must be members allowing for a maximum of 3 non-members to be in the band) and the composition meets the standard accepted by the CCCBR.”

I think this was framed specifically to allow ‘visitors’ to ring without having to join the association.

Surrey does have an Honorary Life Membership (30 years) which is except from the annual subscription.

Surrey Association rules (if anyone is interested) :)