Ringing Forums

As far as making progress goes, from looking at previous surveys, one of the top issues that people raised was lack of opportunities to do so. I don't see any signs that has changed. That is inevitably going to get worse as the number of towers ringing beyond a basic level continues to decline. My own tower had not rung anything beyond PH for the last 46 years (at least). Post COVID we are starting to ring simple methods, with pretty much the same band that was there before. Everyone has embraced the changes, they go off and do homework and are delighted when we manage the next challenge. The tower was apparently the definition of "reached their natural level", but it wasn't so - the problem was lack of opportunity, not lack of latent ability or willingness. — John de Overa

This is very positive John, and I understand from earlier posts that you have written, where your band has come from, so I am glad that you are making progress. I still think some of your band will probably reach a natural level though.

Yes, we need to bring in more people, but if they hit the same roadblocks to progression that have been there for many decades, what's the point? — John de Overa

This is the key problem. I ring in a six bell tower where if we can ring plain bob doubles, that is a good practice night. But I am actively going to "ask" more experienced ringers to come and help my learners develop their ringing, so that they can move beyond plain hunt and plain bob...

Recruiting people when they are young (and retaining them) is clearly what is needed for the long term and I'm sure ageism isn't an issue in your tower, but it's something I and other "mature" ringers in my cohort have faced continually since we started, it's a pretty widely held belief that late starters are a waste of time - I've had people tell me it to my face. I don't think ringing in it's current state can be picky - we need to welcome everyone who wants to ring and make sure they don't meet any barriers to progression, no matter what level they top out at. — John de Overa

100% agree. I am finding at the moment (via Facebook) that it is not too hard to find "mature ringers" (as you put it :-)) I am hoping that maybe RINGING 2030 will help to find those younger ringers, and I want my band of "mature ringers" to be ready to embrace them and develop them when they come online...and that will massively contribute to the future of our art. :-)

I still think some of your band will probably reach a natural level though. — Jason Carter

I'm certain you are right, I can't see them all ringing Surprise for example. But the fact that they can now ring beyond PH, are having fun doing it and find it fulfilling is surely the point? As the old saying goes, the journey is more important than the destination.

I am actively going to "ask" more experienced ringers to come and help my learners develop their ringing — Jason Carter

We are going to pair up with another tower that's next to us but in a different association and run Saturday morning practices. Between the two of us we have enough ringers to put a decent band around people who are learning something new.

We need some stats. Again. — A J Barnfield

We do, but unless they include people who started ringing and no longer do, it would be easy to be misled by them, for example if drop out rates are strongly correlated to age.

The last time I was able to find the ART stats (2019), the cumulative decline in the number of passes between Level 1 and Level 5 was 95%. What I wasn't able to tell was why - was that a reflection of the natural "pipeline" between levels? Was it because people had started and then given up? Or was it that they reached a level they were happy with and dropped out of the ART scheme? It would be helpful to find out; perhaps as well as a general survey of ringers, ART could survey the people who registered in the scheme?

For those concerned about the future of ringing like me; it’s great to be at the NUA as I type, surrounded by young people who are passionate about ringing. Not all dark clouds on the horizon, thankfully.

In our village team, out of nine ringers, two are under 40 and the remainder over 60 with a couple of those over 70. I am over 70 and ring surprise royal. My wife Sheila is over 70 and rings surprise minor. Of the rest, two can ring PB5 and 4 others are learning it. The remainder are ringing call changes and tackle PH5 occasionally. We get some help occasionally on a practice night from a more experienced ringer. Except for me and Sheila and the under 40s, everyone learned as 50 plus. If we want ringers to have a broad repertoire of Minor and Major - ours are not going to make it!!
BUT! what our ringers do have is enthusiasm and the determination to do as well as they can. They are loyal to our Sunday service ringing (although SS ringing is not our main raison d'etre because there are so few services), and we ring for community events. During this year we have visited four different tower practices as a band, been on one mini outing; we rang our hearts out for the Jubilee and Funeral, and we arranged a successful social event for our tower funds.
These ringers are important, and Sheila and I try to encourage them by giving them different ringing experiences. We are very happy to do this and the band has a great time together. Do other tower leaders do likewise for their (below median) ringers, because these ringers are what we've got and we need to make the most of it??
We are ok for the next 5 years or so. After that, I expect that we will start dropping off, so to speak, so planning for succession is our next lmid term project!!!

If we want ringers to have a broad repertoire of Minor and Major - ours are not going to make it!! — Phillip George

Why do you say this? It sounds like your band is similar to mine. I have at least 12 ringers in a six bell tower, and I'm probably (very nearly) always one, sometimes two short for Cambridge minor. Most of my learners are in a similar age bracket to yours, but most are less than 18 months into their ringing career... Whilst I am under no illusion that it may be challenging and a long road to get them into multiple minor, I am not yet sure that it is not possible. Are your learners longer standing in terms of experience?

We are ok for the next 5 years or so. After that, I expect that we will start dropping off, so to speak, so planning for succession is our next lmid term project!!! — Phillip George

18 months ago we regularly only managed 3 or 4 for sunday service, now we nearly always manage six, and we are progressing as a band. We will need help to progress, and my branch knows that I will be asking for that help...

Why do you say this? It sounds like your band is similar to mine. I have at least 12 ringers in a six bell tower, and I'm probably (very nearly) always one, sometimes two short for Cambridge minor. Most of my learners are in a similar age bracket to yours, but most are less than 18 months into their ringing career... Whilst I am under no illusion that it may be challenging and a long road to get them into multiple minor, I am not yet sure that it is not possible. Are your learners longer standing in terms of experience? — Jason Carter

Keep following your aspirations but make sure your band is with you. Your success will depend on a lot of things coming together.
Success in a higher technical standard of ringing relies on good handling skills and understanding (not always easy for older learners), and largely on working through more basic methods and ringing them over and over. Too often ringers are thrown into Cambridge from PB6 / St Clements, and TB is rarely rung.
I learned when I was 14, it seemed easy! I was brought up on multi doubles, plain minor and TB before embarking on S. I know things are different now and resources more scarce, so a different approach is needed. Perhaps the biggest challenge is opportunity, time and most importantly committment of ringers to work hard - regular personal revision/theory and multiple practices per week!.

Cambridge is not my aim, there will (hopefully) be a number of methods along the way. And I was 17, yes it was easy and I totally get that the older you get, the harder it is to progress... But you didn't answer my question about how long your learners have been ringing? Mine are still making progress, but are they about to plateau? (Am I about to find out) that whilst they can ring rounds and call changes pretty well, they can't really hear their bell at all, and are not going to progress in plain hunting as quickly as I hope...?

Cambridge is not my aim, there will (hopefully) be a number of methods along the way. And I was 17, yes it was easy and I totally get that the older you get, the harder it is to progress... But you didn't answer my question about how long your learners have been ringing? Mine are still making progress, but are they about to plateau? (Am I about to find out) that whilst they can ring rounds and call changes pretty well, they can't really hear their bell at all, and are not going to progress in plain hunting as quickly as I hope...? — Jason Carter

Json, yes, I didn't answer your question. Without a detailed analysis, 2 for 10 years,1 for 40 years with a 30 year break, One is a millennium ringer from elsewhere and hadn't rung again until last year, and the remainder less than 10 years. They have not plateaued but the climb is steep and slow. They can ring R&CC very well and enjoy PB5 PH6 and some can G5 (just). It is grindingly slow sometimes and some can't hear their bells unless they really concentrate. Then, something else goes out the window because there simply isn't enough CPU! But what is really good is the encouragement they give each other and the support they give to the tower. They are a great team, and I wouldn't be without them..

The start of this thread was about what questions to include in a survey about ringing, I wondered if it might not be a bad idea to try and guage better the steeplekeeper capacity as we can't ring bells that don't work.

Robert Brown on a thread about fixing stays one a change-ringers email thread wrote:
the problem is that most of the people fixing stuff in
towers are getting older OR there are now lots of towers with no active
bands and no one looking after the bells . Often issues are fixed by
ringers from other towers but certainly in Devon there are large rural
areas where ringing is very limited, PCCS are struggling to keep a roof on
the building, they have no idea about bell maintenance or in many cases
interest in the bells.

As stated I fixed more than my share of stays over the years including
towers which are nothing to do with me in reality , I have a ready supply of
blank stays and the gear to make and modify stays , but not everyone and
every tower is now in this position.