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The data on peals rung is available from PealBase; and no I don't know how to extract it. We don't know what the ringing population is because we don't collect data in anything approaching a statistically meaningful way. We can guess.

The Women in Ringing workgroup researched the number of people who register with ART to learn to ring, the number who ring a quarter peal, the number who ring a peal and even the number who conduct peals. Their focus was on the gap between male and female participation at these various milestones but the data must have started with total numbers. So you could explore the research here or ask from this website: https://www.womeninringing.info/
I think you would have to ask Bryn for the original data set as the articles give you the total number of unique ringers for anything quarter peal length and longer but not then the breakdown of quarters and peals (but they must have had those numbers to be able to show the male female split in peals vs. quarters.

We don't know what the ringing population is because we don't collect data in anything approaching a statistically meaningful way. We can guess. — A J Barnfield

If someone was willing to bung me a few thousand, we could get a good dataset and really go to town on the data analysis. :wink:

On a more realistic note, I am investigating the possibility of doing a comprehensive survey in a small number of districts selected for their representativeness to provide baseline stats over time. Let's see how badly that goes...

At the risk of re-gurgitating common knowledge, to access PealBase, you must have rung at least one peal.
Log in with the name used in the peal report in BellBoard/Ringing World, and you will be asked how many peals you have rung this year (0 is valid!), and then you will receive a password.
Thereafter the world of peal-ringing will be your oyster, giving access to the complete records of all peal-ringers!

to access PealBase, you must have rung at least one peal. — Nick Lawrence

I haven't rung any at all and I have access...

Interesting. I wonder how Drew Craddock picked-up your name for the database.

Aha! (“Take on me”); I’ve just researched the subject, and there is a button to gain access by registering as a peal-ringing friend, but your name is not recognised unless you’ve appeared in the Ringing World peal columns, so as whom have you registered?
Your name is not recognised on PealBase!

On a more realistic note, I am investigating the possibility of doing a comprehensive survey in a small number of districts selected for their representativeness to provide baseline stats over time. — Tristan Lockheart

I've been thinking about doing this too. The two things that have been holding me back are: 1.the belief that something central is coming, and 2. what questions to ask?

Would it be worth pooling resources to get a good set of survey questions that could be asked, that anyone could then use locally? Then this could be used as frequently as individuals wanted to, and if a database comes down the road, no-doubt some volunteers will come forward to populate it with anything already gathered.

Would it be worth pooling resources to get a good set of survey questions that could be asked, that anyone could then use locally? — Jason Carter

Yes

I'll start a new thread

how many ringers have rung a peal and how many have rung more than one? Do we have any statistical data that shows roughly what percentage of the ringing population have rung one peal and what percentage have rung 50, 100 or 500 or more? — Simon Ridley

Well that's used up a Sunday morning with the Yorkshire Associan report and a spreadsheet ...

Well, before you scroll down to the answer, try this formulation of the question:
How Many peals has the Median Ringer rung ?? The Median Ringer is the ringer-in-the-middle: the number of ringers who have rung more peals than the Median Ringer is the same as the number of ringers who have rung fewer (or the same number) ??

For the impatient, just click below :-)


OK, for those who have resisted the clickbait above, my data is from the 2020 Yorkshire Assocition Annual Report, and we have a few caveats:
- the Report is primarily data from before the pandemic.
- the Yorkshire Association (imho) has a quirky view of using personal data: there is an electronic database of all these peal records which we could ask about, and would be more accurate, but would (perhaps) take from now-to-eternity to agree to analyse
- I will have typed the occasional number in the wrong column (in anticipation of my lunch)
- Ringers ring peals for other Associations, and the data only includes those for YA. With a bit more time we could take a sample of peal-ringers and compare with Pealbase data to understand the impact/extent of this.
- Handbell peals are included (and could be investigated with Pealbase as above)
- Yorkshire membership is direct to the Association: some towers pay for their ringers to be members, out of their central funds, and some collect the money locally and pass on their Branch Treasurers. There is no concept of a Tower being affiliated, so 'YA towers' are primarily defined geographically.
- Some ringers are listed under more than one tower, and I may not have weeded them all out.(Also in anticipation of my lunch)
- I have analysed into the bands as below. As ever, a better logarithmic scale would be 0, 1-3, 4-9, 10-31, 32-99, 100-316, 317-999, 1000+
- OP asked for 1-peal ringers, which (lunch again) I haven't specifically counted.

So here are the results:

• 1641 Ringers (of whom):
• 13 have rung 1000+ peals (less than 1% rung 1000+)
• 19 have rung 500-999 peals (2% rung 500+)
• 74 have rung 100-499 peals (6% rung 100+)
• 63 have rung 50-99 peals (10% rung 50+)
• 157 have rung 10-49 peals (20% rung 10+)
• 58 have rung five to nine peals (23% rung 5+)
• 224 have rung one to four peals (37% rung any peals)
• 1033 have rung no peals (63% rung no peals)

The spreadsheet also has the data by Branch and (for example) that of 415 towers (including 3-bell towers), 175 have no YA members ...

Is the Median Ringer's No Peals in any way surprising ?? ... Discuss :-)

Is the Median Ringer's No Peals in any way surprising? — PeterScott

Speaking as a Median Ringer, I would be astonished if that wasn't the case.

I have admiration for the skill, focus and dedication of those who ring peals. Having talked to peal ringers I understand the attraction for those who ring them, but personally I have no interest in ever ringing one. And I suspect that's the Median view.

When I wrote the Shire book I obtained some statistics from various sources and said: "Around five thousand peals are rung each year of which about 15% are on handbells. Some ringers never ring a peal and many just ring a few for special occasions, but some ring them regularly. Each year about 3,000 ringers ring at least one peal. About a third ring only one but the leading peal ringer often rings over two hundred" and: "Quarter peals became popular in the twentieth century and are rung more often (around 13,000 per year) than peals, with well over a quarter of ringers taking part".
Those statistics are now out of date. Peals are down to ~4,500 and quarters up to ~18,000, but the proportion that ring a peal (in any one year) is similar to Peter's figure.

That's good - I think I will try and work that out for the St Martin's Guild which is a smaller sample. I expect the median ringer probably has rung a peal here.
I think the Median ringer overall can ring Bob Minor - nothing more. I can't remember how I worked that out as it was some time ago, but I am sure it's about right. So not surprising that the median ringer overall has not rung a peal.
@PeterScott was lunch good?

Looking at old reports my impression is that in the Good Old Days a lot of ringers rang a few peals but now a few ring a lot. Going back a few decades the median ringer might have rung a peal or two.

John, Just to ascertain that we're talking about the same peal-ringing database (PealBase), which I doubt, as I can't find your name on it, and I'd be surprised if Drew would allow access for non-peal-ringers, please post the following information:
What was my most prolific year, and how many peals did I ring?
With whom have I rung the most peals, and how many?
I appear as "R Nicholas Lawrence".

I think the Median ringer overall can ring Bob Minor - nothing more. I can't remember how I worked that out as it was some time ago, but I am sure it's about right. So not surprising that the median ringer overall has not rung a peal. — Simon Linford

Quite. The attitude seems to vary from tower to tower, but the three broad attitudes I have experienced are:

1. a QP is a bog-standard event,
2. others where the senior ringers ring QPs sometimes but for the rest it's a special event, rarely occuring, and
3. where a QP is something distant and other-wordly.

For most of the above, the most 'advanced' might do peals on the odd occasion, but for the rest it barely registers as a concept, let alone something to even be aspired to. I'm not in the right circles to really get a handle on how many prolific peal and QP ringers there are out there, but they are probably not many in number, and concentrated in certain areas.

You have to be in the right area and in with the right crowd to get into QPs and peals, and a pre-requisite is quite a lot of self-drive to seek out opportunities. More people might get involved if there was a natural progression and an environment where people could be persuaded over time to progress.

Just yesterday @John de Overa was citing lack of quarter peal opportunities as a barrier to completing the higher (4 and 5) levels of ART's Learn the Ropes scheme, because it requires you to ring quarter peals. In my home area that's just not an issue - when someone needs their quarter of Bob Minor we just organise it and there is unlikely to be a delay of more than a two or three weeks to find an opportunity to do it when ready. But I imagine that is a relatively privileged position.

the three broad attitudes I have experienced are... — Tristan Lockheart

I think your three categories are pretty accurate - at one of the towers I ring at a QP is a non-event, if only 6 turn up we'll probably ring a QP and clear off to the pub early, so it's a 1. For my home tower, as far as we can make out, it is 40+ years since the tower band could ring methods, and there are no QPs in bellboard by the tower band, so it's a 3. And I've rung in another tower in the area where it's a 2.

You have to be in the right area and in with the right crowd to get into QPs and peals... — Tristan Lockheart

I think that's right, and I've heard exact same comment from people at surprise major level in this area, so I think it's probably a mostly geographical issue.

lack of quarter peal opportunities as a barrier to completing the higher (4 and 5) levels of ART — Simon Linford

That's right, but it is a deeper issue than just getting a band together for a QP. At my level the first time you ring a QP of a new method is a challenge, one that you need regular practice for. That requires more from helpers than an one-off commitment to turn up for a QP. I've had kind people offer to arrange QPs for me, but unless I'm at the point where there's a reasonable chance of me getting through it, I really don't feel it would be right to take up the offer.

Interestingly, Surprise Minor/Major practices have popped up in two of the associations I ring in, but, as far as I can tell, although they have been advertised by the associations, neither of them have been arranged by them. It remains to be seen if they can be sustained, there's just about enough people at one of them to make it viable. It's also worth noting that without endless clanking away on our tower sim on my own during COVID I would still be at the PBD level, unable to take advantage of either of those opportunities, and there's not much in the area to bridge that gap.

You can start your own peal band - I did many years ago, after consulting an eminent conductor, and we went on to ring many esoteric minor methods; even naming one after our "D-Band" (so-called because we were not good enough for the "A-Band" :-) !

John,
In order to comment constructively (and perhaps instructively) on your post, in attempting to ascertain at what level to pitch my advice I am unable to find any performances against your name on BellBoard.
You've already stated that you've not rung any peals, but do you appear under another name on BellBoard, and in the Ringing World? You state that you sometimes ring a QP (at practice night), and then go early to the pub. Are these QP's not posted on BB?
I would like to assist!

Have a careful read of the President's Blog number 70. (see recent thread on this forum). The content of the blog might assist with your difficulty.

I would like to assist! — Nick Lawrence

Thank you - I did reply to your PM, it should be in your inbox. I've provided more detail there.

John [de Overa],In order to comment ... I am unable to find any performances against your name on BellBoard. — Nick Lawrence

I spent an enjoyable couple of hours ... with John de Overa (not his real name) discussing the challenges facing ringing ... — Simon Linford Blog#70

Gosh, outed by SimonL. Are we all that scary hereabouts ? :-)

Are we all that scary hereabouts — PeterScott

Sure are :grimace: :scream: :fear:

It's for purely hysterical raisins - I needed an alternate soshul meejah account when we did the publicity for our rehang, then it got traction locally so I kept it going, then when I registered on here I reused it so people wouldn't get confused. No big deal.

Not getting on me high horse or anything but:

https://www.ringingforums.org/page/ringingforums-policy

"Users shall register and post under their real name"

I don't think that pseudonyms help. I always use my real initials.

You can start your own peal band - I did many years ago, after consulting an eminent conductor, and we went on to ring many esoteric minor methods; even naming one after our "D-Band" (so-called because we were not good enough for the "A-Band" :-) ! — Nick Lawrence

Often, getting stuck in and DIY is the best way to get something done. But ringing even at the lower levels relies on a great deal of self-motivation. If you have to fight your way through to ringing peals, it's hardly an incentive to take it up, is it? And putting together a willing peal band may be quite difficult; even getting people together for QPs is reportedly becoming more challenging in a number of areas.

Historically I think that personal development in ringing has largely been DIY. I learnt to handle, ring rounds and calls and some basic change ringing at my local tower. After that I cycled round the area most nights of the week to tower practice nights where friendly and helpful local bands aided my progression. Then I got scooped up by some peal and qp fixers. In more recent years I have rung with various qp bands, fixing them myself if there was something I wanted to ring or for someone else to have a go at something. Guilds and Associations, or anything formal, did not figure much in this.

As noted above these informal structures are starting to break down. The tower model started crumbling some time back. Now there are signs that the number of peals and qps might not recover to pre pandemic levels.

We need formal structures now not just for initial training but for continuing development. And I don't think the traditional monthly open branch practice comes close to addressing this.

If we are going to sort this out somehow we need to convince guilds and associations that they need to take T&D a lot more seriously and not just fix social events with a bit of ringing thrown in.

If we don't then the number of peal and qp ringers will continue to decline and the median ringer will ring call changes.

as someone much lower down in the pyramid, I think your assessment of the current situation is accurate, particularly when it comes to the need for continuing development and the issues around associations.

I think the median ringer has probably been ringing CCs for a long time already, the question is if they have a desire to progress beyond that? And what proportion of ringers actually aspire to ringing peals, or is it of interest only to a small but highly visible section of the ringing community?

Perhaps something to explore in the questionnaire?

I think the median ringer has probably been ringing CCs for a long time already, the question is if they have a desire to progress beyond that? And what proportion of ringers actually aspire to ringing peals, or is it of interest only to a small but highly visible section of the ringing community? — John de Overa

The extent of desire for progress would definitely be something worth considering for inclusion in the survey.