Ringing Forums

people from our tower have recently started going to the monthly plain methods sessions at the Derbyshire one, but from looking at their calendar, the main users seem to be the resident band.

Some of the CC Ringing Centres are still shown as such on Dove. Was there ever anything done with entries once they were added?

I think there is certainly room for a classification system for towers, perhaps with three levels, to indicate the facilities and people-power the tower has to provide for learners (Enhanced, Hub, and Centre, with other towers being Standard?) Certainly, many towers don't have facilities to teach, and places where teaching could be developed then skills planted out to other towers locally would be valuable.

Take a look at this map from Dove, showing the locations of simulators. Some pretty major gaps, even in the major metropolises where they could have a large customer base. This doesn't even account for the fact that some simulators are rarely used. Perhaps a classification scheme would encourage the development of facilities? It would need to be backed up by annual self-assessments and periodical inspections to keep the classification scheme reliable.

For those that kept going what were the factors that kept them going for any that did not why not? — A J Barnfield

I would be very interested to hear the answer to this.

Take a look at this map from Dove, showing the locations of simulators. Some pretty major gaps, even in the major metropolises where they could have a large customer base. — Tristan Lockheart

I'd be a little cautious about reading too much into that map - I know of at least 3 towers in the Greater Manchester area that have simulators and aren't on the map.

I'd be a little cautious about reading too much into that map - I know of at least 3 towers in the Greater Manchester area that have simulators and aren't on the map. — John de Overa

Ah, the usual 'no-one thought to update Dove' issue. Another thing for Central Council Operatives to do when they get sent into the field :wink:

@John Harrison may know more of the history of this because the Ringing Centres committee existed when I was on the Education Committee that he chaired. I remember wondering why it was separate - I think we all did. But it was thought that separate focus might help ringing centres develop. There was a limit to what could be done though, as ringing centres tend to be a very local initiative, and short of puttin them on a map, I don't suppose the CC could add much value. ART created its 'ART Hubs' which were more about people, which is true of any ringing centre.

So many places have a simulator now that it doesn't form the definition of a ringing centre. It's about people and organisation. There is presumably value in knowing where someone could go to use a well set up simulator without needing to be a member of the local band, and what they might expect when they get there.

John Harrison may know more of the history — Simon Linford

Yes, I was meaning to comment but waiting to check the facts to support what I remember. A working party was formed in 1990 to investigate: 'the possibility of a Ringing Centre as a way of lifting the Exercise off a plateau of ringing advancement'. That was just after we had declared the need for a 'decade of recruitment' to get from 40,000 to 50,000 ringers after the 1988 survey. The working party initially focused on a single National Ringing Centre, but concluded it would be better to promote a number of Centres throughout the country. See the report
Ringing centres were expected to be involved in both teaching and promotion, and the criteria for Council recognition included having a simulator and teaching room, being usable with minimal restriction, being open for use by anyone, and having a workable management structure.
Initially there were relatively few centres but many more were created after the Council negotiated a grant scheme funded by the Worshipful Company of Founders. Some met the original spirit of a ringing centre, and were proactive forces in their area, but some did little more than take the money, install the kit and call themselves a ringing centre.
The Ringing Centres Committee always had representative on the Education Committee since there were areas of sharedinterest. In 2007 Roger Booth and I negotiated terms to merge the two committes, which the Education Committee approved but the Ringing Centres Committee didn't, so it never happened.
Roger was on the Ringing Centres Committee for much of the time so could give better insights than I can.

So I have two experiences of involvement in a ringing centre. The first was when Moulton, Northants got one, courtesy of a grant of circa £1,000 from the Worshipful Company of Founders (a long time ago). We held some tied practices offering basic 8 bell sessions both plain and basic surprise methods. I was young and inexperienced and it was still a new idea back then and not easy to advertise. On reflection we didn't make much progress. In the last 12 months or so we have installed a simulator at CC, Swindon. Pleased to see we are on the map - I didn't instigate that!! Generous grants from the G&B and a few local ringers delivered this. It was launched due to a realisation that after COVID we needed to recruit and teach. In the last year we have held 11 sessions, with 14 learners and another 17 more experienced supporters. We have settled into offering a 2 hour session for four learners, offering whatever they want to try (with a band around them).. This has worked fine and every session has had enough support. But only one person (me) is teaching at the moment and this is the pinchpoint. With a non-ringing spouse, I cannot offer any more time, but if we could get a small team who can lead the sessions, we could offer more frequent sessions. We are making progress.... two of (my home tower learners, one of which has only 15 months experience) made good progress today on plain hunt. The fundamental gap is teachers, and I think a lot of us can do it... it is just about having the confidence to step forward and give it a try.

ut only one person (me) is teaching at the moment and this is the pinchpoint. — Jason Carter

As it is almost everywhere. I don't see how we can deliver the quality of training needed to retain and progress the responders to "Ring For The King".

I think the problem was that under the old structure the CCCBR had a myriad of committees, each with a narrow focus. Also, the leadership of the CCCBR changed every three years, so there was limited continuity and the new leadership would start a new initiative without learning from the past, let alone building on it. There was little joined up thinking. Hence why today we still have CC recognised ringing centres listed on Dove and a Ringing Centres Facebook group.

The Education Committe tended to be focussed on the production of teaching material and the Ringing Centres Committee was set up to help establish and supporting training centres. When the Education Committee proposed setting up an Instructors Guild at the CCCBR meeting at Lincoln in 1999 there were concerns about certification of instructors. If introduced, churches and insurance companies might insist that ringing was only taught by certificated instructors and, where none were available, ringing would cease.

It was also argued that as the number of ringers was increasing despite the continuing decline in church membership, and nothing should be done to reverse that increase. Mr S J Coleman therefore proposed that “The Council asks the Education Committee not to pursue the question of certification of instructors until the Central Council Instructors’ Guild is fully established nationally and is working well.” Mr R. B. Smith seconded, and the motion was put to the vote and carried.

This put the concept on hold for ten years till ART was established by the Ringing Foundation, which was another of those initiatives by CCCBR, this time to bring more funding into recruitment and training. Many of those involved in setting ART up were either members of the CCCBR Ringing Centres Committee, or the Education Committe who were concerned about the glacial pace of progress.

Even after ART was established, I remember attending various meetings and joint working parties and it was evident that the old turf wars still persisted. Had everyone worked together we might be somewhere different today, but from the early days ART and the Ringing Foundation were both attacked, this causing the latter to eventually be wound up. Although things have improved significantly more recently, there are still some pockets where people still seem to live in two parallel universes, with people hanging on to the legacy of the past.

Perhaps because it is free from outside control, ART is able to concentrate on its core mission of training and supporting new teachers, and it has come a long way in the past ten years. Things are not perfect and there is still a huge amount to do, but at least things are moving in the right direction and there are a lot of new initiatives in the pipeline.

As it is almost everywhere. I don't see how we can deliver the quality of training needed to retain and progress the responders to "Ring For The King". — John de Overa

There is no doubt that Ring for the King is a good initiative. But by not having a structured system with enough capacity to take ringers forward, I imagine it could be quite chaotic. People feeling pressured into teaching before they are ready not delivering a quality education. Learners not getting enough attention and giving up. Unrealistic expectations of the commitment to ringing. Hitting a wall when trying to progress to methods. Trying to rush people through to get to call changes in time for the coronation. Burnout of teachers. Ultimately, we could lose quite promising learners amongst the mêlée and burn through dedicated teachers and organisers. Probably too late to do much now if the cooperation and systems aren't already in place on the ground, but something to get in place before the next big drive (ring for the King 2.0?)

I think the concerns that Mary Jones (the Accidental Ringer) expresses on her blog are not without merit, and I wonder whether the sort of recruits will be the injection we need? A load of pensioners might not be ideal (fine if they are younger pensioners, but if we can't get a good many years out of them, can we afford the time, effort and money?) and neither would people who Ring for the King and then stop. We could do with a few more Marys, but even dedicated Sunday service ringers who are happy to get to a good quality of call changes or basic methods would be a good start.

There were lots of call for recruitment campaigns as lockdown came to an end, but they were resisted because we wanted there to be more teachers. ART has been flat out running M1 courses over the last six months, so we are in a much better position than in the past for dealing with recruits. Not thousands of course, but that's probably wishful thinking anyway. You can never tell whether promotion will be picked up by the media or not.

We had three new teachers on an M1 course in Birmingham three weeks ago, and all are now teaching new learners at the BSoBR.

There would have been more criticism for not promoting the Coronation as an opportunity to do some recruitment than there will be for doing it. And it is up to those introducing new recruits to make sure they are teaching people who see this as an activity that will continue for a long time, with being available to ring for the Corontation as maybe their first milestone. As someone who was bitten by a Millennium learner who gave up ringing at 00.10 on 1.1.00 I am not going to make that mistake again. I should have realised she was only learning for the event.

Ring for the King is not replacing the long term strategy of looking at who and how we recruit, targeting the people who we think will be interested, keen and committed.

I agree that not having a recruitment initiative for the coronation would have been a very big missed opportunity. It had to be done. I agree that from a post*-pandemic perspective the time is now right. I have watched the recruitment video and it is excellent. The links with national media have been very well handled. What has been done at the centre/top is worthy of much praise.

But there is a but. I am a member of three associations/guilds. I don't think there has even been a mention in dispatches from any of them yet. Chatting down the pub it seems that those that knew about the initiative had heard items in the national media, not through ringing channels.

ART, reasonably, seems to be at the centre of the training initiative. Have all the ART trained trainers been fully briefed yet?

*Not sure if we are fully post yet.

It's a fair point which I will take away and address as best I can

it's a pity there wasn't more interest in learning the lessons from Ringing In The Millennium. The session I organised during the Liverpool CC weekend was intended to do that but got hijacked down a side track, and I don't recall anything much afterwards.

not having a recruitment initiative for the coronation would have been a very big missed opportunity — A J Barnfield

I agree that would have been a mistake, and with the rest of what you say - centrally, I think things have been done well. But I've also heard nothing at all from the four associations I ring in, I've also checked all four association websites and there's nothing on any of them either.

it is up to those introducing new recruits to make sure they are teaching people who see this as an activity that will continue for a long time — Simon Linford

Exactly.

We have a recently retired new ringer who ticks all the boxes - learns fast, making good progress and is now a fully integrated member of the tower. I can adjust my work schedule to give her 1 hour of 1:1 time a week on the simulator, the goal being to get her ringing PH by places as quickly as possible so she can join in with the rest of the ringers, who, after a 40+ year hiatus, are starting to learn methods. I'm not going to push her to one side so I can teach learners who's commitment might not even last to the end of the coronation ceremony.

Although I've been on the ART M1 course and am teaching "By The Book" I'm unlikely to register as an ART teacher as I don't have the time to teach people who might be referred to me. Plus the ART teacher who taught me has been burned out by the process, to the point where she talked about giving up ringing. I'm not going to risk the same.

If we were to actually recruit 8,000 new ringers, with about 6 months before the coronation we'd probably need 1-2,000 new teachers in place before Xmas. Even teaching 1,000 ringers would be a stretch, I think.

How many registered ART teachers are there currently to whom referrals could be made?

I don't think they publish the data. There are 502 people on the ringing teacher's Facebook group, no idea how that relates to ART numbers though.

I can find a "find by county" map but it would be slow going adding them up county by county...

yes, that's all I could find as well

I agree that not having a recruitment initiative for the coronation would have been a very big missed opportunity. It had to be done. I agree that from a post*-pandemic perspective the time is now right. I have watched the recruitment video and it is excellent. The links with national media have been very well handled. What has been done at the centre/top is worthy of much praise.

But there is a but. I am a member of three associations/guilds. I don't think there has even been a mention in dispatches from any of them yet. Chatting down the pub it seems that those that knew about the initiative had heard items in the national media, not through ringing channels. — A J Barnfield

Totally agree we have to move now, but maybe only in areas that are ready. But a better system of communication by Associations is needed. I shared the initiative in my branch and also in my local FB group and have two new recruits coming on Thursday. That's all I need, that's all every tower needs, but on a regular basis. If we can improve the distribution of "what is coming from the centre" to those that can act on it, then we can start now. If Ringing 2030 can unlock how I recruit 12-20 year olds, scouts, guides and youth groups, then I will throw 100% of my weight behind it and mobilise local people to get those young people trained.