Ringing Forums

"we tend to see ringing, and all its important facets, from our own point of view, which often can be somewhat blinkered". I am definitely blinkered. No question.

I know I keep on flogging the same old horse but we really do need to address the question of what the newly recruited will find when they turn up to learn. If their main aim is to find a nice group of middle-aged-to-elderly , middle class, probably white people for a social group with learning to ring something of a secondary attraction, with significant pull from history and religion, then they will probably do ok.

If the new recruits are looking more for achievement in ringing with method ringing, composition, conducting and so on the main (if not sole) attraction and wishing to make significant progress at a reasonable pace then they might be lucky but probably won't.

So if we are aiming to recruit people who are likely to do well (at method ringing) we are aiming to recruit people who will be lucky to fetch up somewhere where they will get the T&D support they need, particularly in the medium to long term.

I will keep making the same point. The recruitment needs to match up with what we can deliver. Of course I might be wrong.Perhaps most guilds and associations have well developed T&D structures in place and are already waiting for folk to turn up.

But I suspect not. Of course I think I am being realistic, rather than negative; but I anticipate hearing the nasty grinding sound of marketing ideology against reality.

Internal reform needs to come before external selling.

This is right - the reason for getting outside help is that we need to see ringing from the outside to really understand how to attract the right recruits. First we do need to understand all the different motivations, all the types of people for whom ringing becomes 'their thing'. As JAH said - select those who are well suited to ringing and likely to do well. — Simon Linford

I didn't realise that bell ringing in general has such a rich source of recruits that it can afford to be selective and discard those who don't measure up.

I'd be interested to hear thoughts on how such people could be identified? — John de Overa

We could start by looking at what is done in other skill based activities, sports and musical performance being obvious comparators. There must be quite a few ringers with relevant experience.
I don't have that direct experience, either of overt selection (by the recruiter) or of self selection (by the recruit), but the sort of questions I would ask of someone who has would ask are:
How do you help potential recruits to understand the skills needed to succeed at xxx, how xxx enhances or constrains one's lifestyle, and what sort of rewards it delivers.
How can you assess aptitude for xxx early in training, eg by audition, trials, tests, ...
How do you and the recruit manage the decision to continue or not?
How much of the stake in continuing or not continuing is owned by the recruit (eg sunk training fees) and how much is owned by the recruiter (eg sunk training time, opportunity cost of others nit trained, etc)?

I think that we should give anyone who wants to have a go at ringing a chance to start. Recruitment might sensibly target, but not filter. The filtering comes later based on aspiration and aptitude. Some will end up ringing basic stiff at a local tower, some will end up in the black zone and there will be many in between.

As it is at the moment we are struggling to get folk beyond Plain Bob, partly because of who is turning up to learn and partly because of the existing T&D regimes.

How about:

When you sign up to learn to ring you are attached to a school. (you might, or might not, be attached to a local tower)
You will be assigned a mentor.
You will stay attached to the school into the medium and perhaps long term. In time you will be both teacher and learner. It is to the school that you will look for your development although of course you will probably also ring for services, weddings, peals and quarters.

Being a ringer will probably define you more than your membership of a particular tower, although of course a particular tower or towers could well be important to you.

You're missing the point. We don't have a rich source of recruits and we don't turn anyone down, and probably never will. This is about creating more recruits who are knocking on our door because they have heard how great a thing to do ringing is, they think it will suit them, and they want to learn. It is all additional.

I pose a real life dilemma for you as we are on the subject of recruits. At the Birmingham School of Bell Ringing we now have a waiting list for Tower A bell handling. We are saying to new people who want to learn that we can start them in the new year. The scarce resource is the number of teachers. Last Saturday morning, four of us were teaching six learners.

We expect students to spend no more than 10 weeks at Tower A. Younger recruits spend far less time there. How long do you give someone to pass Level 1 (competent bell handling) before saying that they are taking up a valuable space and maybe ringing is not for them?

But the cake needs to look attractive to non-ringers. — Phillip George

One of the tasks we have been set prior to the focus group sessions for the rebranding exercise is “ imagine yourself a non-ringer interested in learning in your area. Do some brief research and see what you find….”. Certainly in my area, the results were thoroughly uninspiring. I look forward to hearing from some others there.

When you sign up to learn to ring you are attached to a school. (you might, or might not, be attached to a local tower)
You will be assigned a mentor.
You will stay attached to the school into the medium and perhaps long term. In time you will be both teacher and learner. It is to the school that you will look for your development although of course you will probably also ring for services, weddings, peals and quarters. — A J Barnfield

Yes. Mentorship is key, as is the availability of opportunities to progress. A network of schools is more likely to achieve this than many individual towers. Focusing additional funding on these schools would allow the installation of simulators and other teaching devices; much better than whatever you can get in a 1 1/2 hours practice night weekly (or less in some areas).

You're missing the point. We don't have a rich source of recruits and we don't turn anyone down, and probably never will. This is about creating more recruits who are knocking on our door because they have heard how great a thing to do ringing is, they think it will suit them, and they want to learn. It is all additional. — Simon Linford

That's quite a task (you already know that). If you stopped 100 people in the street, I wonder how many of them will even had a passing thought that bell ringing is a 'thing', let alone know the first thing about it.

I'm interested to know the methodology that the marketing firm are going to use, it might be applicable at a local level. :smile:

I do intend to be pretty open wiht this process and I will set up part of the Council website to post reports etc. Even the initial brief we gave to agencies when we were selecting one. Everyone's opinion is valuable on this one!

:up: Thanks!

Recruitment might sensibly target, but not filter. The filtering comes later based on aspiration and aptitude. — A J Barnfield

I think that's right, I think it's very difficult to know who will "make it" from the start, because it's not just a question of raw aptitude, it's also largely about desire to do it well and commitment.

A mistake I made with my first two learners was to not make it 100% clear at the start that the deal was they would be expected to turn up on Sunday mornings as soon as they were competent. Despite how that may appear, it had absolutely nothing to do with anything religious, it was about assessing the level of commitment they were likely to give the band.

How long do you give someone to pass Level 1 (competent bell handling) before saying that they are taking up a valuable space and maybe ringing is not for them? — Simon Linford

Difficult one. I've seen teachers burned out by taking on too many lost causes and keeping them going for too long.

simulators and other teaching devices; much better than whatever you can get in a 1 1/2 hours practice night weekly (or less in some areas) — Tristan Lockheart

My ringing didn't really step up until I had access to a simulator whenever I was so inclined. They aren't a substitute for ringing with a band, but used appropriately they are a huge help - they don't get bored and want to bugger off the the pub :smile:

How long do you give someone...?

It sounds as if your rule of thumb is 10 weeks, based on what has previously happened at the School. That sounds like a sensible limit. Perhaps the question should be "under what circumstances would you give someone an extended Level 1 course?". Perhaps if there is an obvious reason such as a physical limitation which could be expected to prolong each phase? If it is a relatively bog-standard adult learner, then why not give the place to someone else?