Ringing Forums

Not as such, as far as I am aware but I do miss a lot. There have been discussions about suitable methods for progression, such as using Little Bob to get the feel of treble bob ringing and progressing via Double Oxford Bob Minor, Norwich S Minor to Cornwall S Major rather than the traditional route in via Cambridge.
Minor ringing does not suffer the same problem that drove PPE. The most commonly rung Minor methods are reasonable from a musical point of view and you have to knock out all the 720 changes anyway just for a qp. Manky sounding stuff like 65s at back and plonky places at the back have generally been avoided historically.

The problem with S Major was that some of the commonly rung methods were (are) rather poor musically. But you have the book so you know all about it now. I continue to be fascinated as to how the standard 8 evolved. A lot to learn about human nature there about emotive attachments to history, tradition and the status quo and the problems with bringing about change even when logically the course of action is clear.

Thanks for the reply, I think your second paragraph applies to a lot of areas in ringing :wink: I'm looking forward to reading through the PPE articles in order, I've just dipped in and out so far to try to find an answer to my question about Cambridge.

I'm interested to see your Minor methods list. Pre-COVID I'd got about as far as PBM with forays into Grandsire, St Simons & St Clements. During COVID I still had access to a tower simulator, but had to figure out what to ring myself. As I recollect, the first thing I chose was Double Oxford Bob as it was a plain method with the same frontwork as St Cs so I already knew 2/5ths of it, but it had lots of dodges and places, which is what I was struggling to ring accurately. Then it was on to Oxford TB as it felt like an achievable extension of trebling to TB methods, which I'd already done. Then Kent, then Woodbine, because I'd seen it on peal boards round here, and in the "Forbidden Methods" book, and I already knew the front work via Oxford/Kent and other parts were adaptions of parts of Double Oxford. Then I wanted to learn how to learn multiple similar methods, so I learned the Oxford Group (Capel, London Scholars, Kingston, Capel) and how to ring spliced touches of them - that was mostly about learning to think "on the fly" and remember the differences between each of them. Then ringing resumed, and the "Grown ups" were given Norwich as homework so I learned that - it seemed similar to stuff I already knew, I've since learned Woodbine is Oxford below the treble and Norwich above, and Woodbine has been given to the band as homework :grin:

So looking at your list, it's very similar to what I've done blundering about on my own. Learning Cambridge has taken 4-5 simulator sessions, the main "oddity" being the 4 bits of PH which feel rather strange, the front/back/middle work was tweaks to stuff I already knew. However I think if I'd tried to go straight to Cambridge I'd still be struggling, like lots of people I've seen pushed in that direction.

I feel I've come out of the blundering around that I've done is a set of patterns I can glue together into different methods, so rather than "Learning Cambridge" I've "Leaned how to learn Cambridge", and lots of other methods as well, if that makes sense. I must be one of the few people who thinks their ringing has benefited from COVID!

you've done well to find a pathway that has taught you how to learn. Building up to Cambridge Minor is about finding the simple methods that put places in the right places - Single Court, Single Oxford, Double Oxford etc. I am not a bit fan of taking people into Kent - Kent just gets messed up - Oxford is more useful in my opinion.
Although there might be first steps into treble dodging minor that are better than Cambridge, you hit the same scenario that one hits in treble dodging major in that if you meet seven other surprise major ringers at a practice then the minimum they will know is Cambridge so you might as well start with that! There are simpler treble dodging minor methods than Cambridge but you won't find any peoeple who know them. The methods you have found, like London Scholars, are well know to handbell ringers because they have simple structures.

I agree Oxford is easier to reuse elsewhere but Kent did help with learning how to make wrong places, and that helped (a bit) with Stedman, although I still need to work on that (p.s. Diary Method is my choice :wink:) And learning the structural relationship between Oxford and Kent was also an "Ahah!" moment. The first time I rang an affected touch of either Oxford or Kent with "real" ringers was a couple of weeks ago, when we rang them both together, laminated rather than spliced I believe. Knowing the relationships between Oxford & Kent was essential, as was the kindness of the conductor!

I rarely get to ring on 8 round here as there are very few major bands and they are populated by black zoners, so out of my league. The minor band who have kindly taken me in have a fairly eclectic repertoire, they can all ring Cambridge but it's not a mainstay, so there was no pressure put on me to learn it. Because of the mix of methods I've rung, when I did decide to finally learn Cambridge it was more a case of "Yeah, I think I can probably hack my way though that" rather than "OMG!", so not rushing into it has I think been the right thing for me as I felt that I was making continual progress all the while. Hopefully I'll get a chance to ring it "for real" within the next couple of weeks :grin:

You should not need to be worried about attending towers that are populated by black-zoners. They were all learners once. e-mail the tower captain and possibly have a talk over the phone. Explain that you want to progress to 8 bell ringing and eventually Surprise Major and that you may be nervous ringing with much better ringers than yourself. Make it clear that you don't expect to get that many rings in a practice.

If you get a positive reception from the tower captain, expect to make mistakes and get constructive criticism about your striking. Talk to the tower captain about what your next step should be. It might start with Plain Bob of Grandsire and that is fine. It about finding you comfort level and then being stretched. Learn the methods they ring regularly and try to follow what a ringer in front of you is doing rather than just sitting there being bored. Don't worry if you can follow for more than a few rows to start with. it will come. This 'observing' will develop your method knowledge, 8 bell ropesight and listening skills. In fact, the ropesight will be harder as the ringer of the bell you are watching will often obscure your view. So that's a bit of 'overtraining' as eventually it will be easier to see when you are one of the band.

It is to be hoped that you are made welcome and that you can then slowly progress to become a black-zoner yourself. Sadly, if you are not made welcome you may need to look elsewhere if that is possible in your area.

Personally, I am using this approach to develop to my next level and it is slowly but surely showing results.

thank you for the advice, however it's significantly easier to find good 6 bell ringing round here than it is 8 - and it's hard enough to find 6. The minor band who have taken me under their wing are capable major ringers and if there are ever 8 at a practice they'll ring on 8. I've still got plenty to go at ringing minor, and I'd rather aim at being a decent minor ringer than a bad major one!