Ringing Forums

There have been some discussions on whether ringing for weddings during the mourning period should go ahead or not. I suggest that the instructions in our guidance is followed and a conversation with the vicar as to whether ringing for a wedding is appropriate at all or not in the circumstance.

The guidance says bells should remain muffled until the proclamation of the new monarch, which as far as I can work out, seems to be scheduled for Saturday morning. So a saturday afternoon wedding should be fine!

4pm seems to be the earliest for open ringing, and just for the accession. They should be muffled again afterwards, until the funeral.

https://cccbr.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Guidance-for-parish-churches-on-the-death-of-HM-the-Queen-8th-September-2022.pdf

Note, it appears they've moved the accession ringing back a day, to Sunday. The CCCBR and CofE documents don't agree any longer, I assume the CCCBR copy will be updated at some point. The CofE one is here:

https://www.churchofengland.org/sites/default/files/2022-09/Guidance%20for%20parish%20churches%20on%20the%20death%20of%20HM%20the%20Queen%20-%208th%20September%202022.pdf

Double muffles -
if you wish to improvise with double muffles, we have provided some information here: https://cccbr.org.uk/resources/stewardship-and-management/ at the last bullet point in the list

Thank you for posting this, we need up to date and concise information so it's much appreciated. However, (and this is not your fault), this is now confusing because although the amended document now mentions D-Day as 9th September they have not re-dated it to the 9th, not helpful to anyone who is only aware of the original 8th Sep document!

Yes that it interesting that they have redefined D day. Lots of places have already made arrangements to ring open on Saturday. Some checking to be done.

I notice that the document on the CCCBR website has now been updated and is the same as the one on the CofE site. However I've just had an email from our association chair, he's been told by the diocese that we are to ring on Saturday. I've pointed out the inconsistency between that and the latest Lambeth House guidance... So yes indeed, "Some checking to be done"!

Yes, please could we have urgent clarification as to when the proclamation ringing should be?

I think the other thing that would be helpful is guidance on whether wedding ringing & practices should continue, albeit muffled and ringing something within each band's ability. My own feeling is that that the public will want to hear as much ringing as possible, not less.

Why keep the bells muffled if they won't be rung? I agree that the ringing should go ahead (although limited until Monday perhaps) with appropriate quality levels.

A comment on the CCCBR page on Facebook, posted just after midnight last night (Friday 9th):

Cameron Watt
Hello all - I'm the author of the national CofE parish church guidance and can be contacted at camerondotwattatchurchofenglanddotorg - happy to be contacted for clarification on anything in our document. With the cascade of proclamations for the new monarch beginning Saturday morning with the Principal Proclamation from the balcony at St. James's Palace at 11am. There will then be a further proclamation in the City of London at noon, and then further proclamations in the other national capitals the following day (Sunday) at noon. There will then be proclamations at county and unitary authority levels from 2pm on Sunday, and at town/parish level from 4pm. The hope is that there will be muffled (or half-muffled) ringing before the local proclamation, then unmuffled ringing following the local proclamations, then muffled ringing until after the funeral. Her Majesty enjoyed church bell ringing, and the way that it unites communities. Thank you all for all that you do, and especially at this time - when you are helping to unite our nation in both commemorating the late Queen, and celebrating the accession of the King.

"unmuffled ringing following the local proclamations" and "proclamations at county and unitary authority levels from 2pm on Sunday, and at town/parish level from 4pm" seems very clear to me, and conflicts with the CCCBR advice in the same FB post:

Following further discussion and interpretation of the CofE guidance, we suggest the following for open ringing following the proclamation of the new Monarch expected on Saturday. Open ringing from 11am (BST) on Saturday (D+1) following the proclamation announcement until the flags are lowered again at 1pm (BST) on Sunday.

Having already rescheduled once, to move the proclamation ringing today, it's simply too late to move it again. There's already a confused mix of ringing open/closed today/tomorrow across the country.

Plus if we are to ring open today and keep so until flags are lowered at 1pm on Sunday, we'll be ringing open for Sunday Service at 10am - which seems somewhat strange as it's a service that will commemorate the queen.

@Simon Linford this absolutely isn't your fault or the CCCBR's, but can you please express the confusion annoyance of the ringing community to the CofE on our behalf? There's simply no excuse for this shambles, they've had literally decades to figure all this out in advance, including different times of day of the announcement of The Queen's death, the day of the week it happened on and the fact she might be at Balmoral.

Clarifications around the timings would be very much appreciated.

Here are some methods that people might like to ring over the coming days and weeks:

Queen Elizabeth II Bob Minor
Queen Elizabeth II Surprise Minor
Queen Elizabeth II Treble Place Minor
Elizabeth Surprise Major
Queen Elizabeth II Delight Major
Queen Elizabeth Treble Bob Major
Elizabeth II Alliance Major
Elizabeth II Alliance Royal
Elizabeth II Alliance Maximus
Charles Surprise Minor
King Charles Delight Minor

These methods* can be found in the following Complib collection:
Queen Elizabeth II and Charles III

*excluding Elizabeth II Alliance Major and Maximus which have yet to be rung.

There are also Doubles Variations:

Queen Elizabeth II Doubles
Queen Elizabeth Doubles
Charles Doubles

Central Council Variations and Calls Library

Yes, very frustrating. Unfortunately I spent the whole day in the Welsh mountains as well with no signal so couldn't help Vicki Chapman clarify. No one understood about these local proclamations, and also the Cof E then admitted they had got their dates wrong.

Here in Darkest Northern Derbyshire we are still waiting for the herald to make his way over Doctor's Gate, the packhorse trail over Snake Pass, bringing news from as afar as Sheffield. We've had strange portents of light in the sky over the last few nights, so we knew matters of great import were afoot.

But that might just have been the planes on approach to Manchester airport...

So far I have rung three times in the last few days at three different village churches.

On Friday I rang from 12:00 mid-day with the muffles on. (According to protocol?)
Yesterday I rang open from 12:00 with the flag up and the muffles off. This seemed sensible as we had just seen the proclamation on the TV, but not in line with protocol?
This morning I rang for a morning service with the muffles on (according to protocol?).
This evening I am booked to ring with the muffles on (not according to protocol?)

So it is looking 50/50 by the end of the day.

and I don't suppose those listening really minded

I don't suppose they did; and the ringers seemed to be ok with whatever was being rung. Just glad to be part of history.

On behalf of ringers and the CCCBR I will be providing feedback to contacts at Lambeth Palace around issues bellringers faced both by the extension of Procalamtion Day over 2 days (presumably they didn't decide that), flags at half mast whilst local Procalamations still taking place, and clarification about ringing for other events such as weddings during the period of National Mourning.

Our next conversations will then turn to bellringers participation in King Charles III's Coronation.

It' not just the extension over 2 days, it's also that "Day 0" changed in the CofE parish guidance document as well as well.

:up:

Was tolling to be muffled, 1/2 muffled or open?

Hi Vicki, I realise that it’s been a really busy time for all ringers recently, but your mention of the Coronation made me think about recruiting ringers whose immediate goal would be to ring for that event.

If the coronation is in the spring, the recruitment campaign would seem to be needed in the not too distant future. Does any pre-planning exist for this please?

As part of what I have written to Lambeth Palace I have indicated we would want to done something for the Coronation and use this as a recruitment opportunity to Ring for the King! It's being looked at as part of the PR Workgroup activities and I have been in contact with the Chair of ART to make them aware they may be an influx of requests to learn to ring. Will announce something as soon as plans are more formulated.

if these conversations are ongoing it might be useful to point out some of the practicalities of muffling/unmuffling bells. The idea of ringing muffled ahead of the proclamation, unmuffled after, then resuming muffled ringing later is very "quaint" and might be do-able on a light ring with easy access, easy fit muffles, and people young/fit/available enough to do the job: in many cases it will not be very practical - but ringers still want to "do the right thing" given their circumstances.

This might be an area where the CCCBR guidance provides the extra detail as additional notes to the top level guidance.

How about:

Tolling on the death of the monarch.

Open ringing for the proclamation (on the Londondan proclamation day).

Then muffles on for the duration of the period of national mourning?