Ringing Forums

There are a number of products on the market made from recycled polymers - e.g. garden furniture. Whilst these materials have no cellular structure equivalent to wood, they are often able to be worked in very similar ways. The required properties for stays are known - surely it would not be beyond the wit of (wo)man to test bats of such modern materials with the view to finding a sufficiently close equivalent to ash?

I've found all three "volumes" engaging, and have printed off copies to leave "lying about" in our Ringing Room for others to pick up and browse through. They're each impressive in their own ways, and being able to evolve / expand over time is an great asset.

When I was first taught I was advised to imaging throwing the rope through the floor, letting the sally go at the last possible second and finally putting my dominant hand onto that holding the tail, a bit like holding a golf club. Once I'd got used to that my teacher led me into a more relaxed action with my dominant hand. I later found that where my dominant hand actually ended up on the rope varied from bell to bell in our tower. With a comfortable rhythm going, I find my dominant hand ends up in slightly different place on the rope when changing places with another bell during ringing. Not sure if that is an "impure technique", but I mostly notice it when my ringing feels better than my usual...

The taper of groups of worn channels gives an indication of where the ropes went through a point at which no lateral movement was occurring. That point is sometimes, (perhaps usually), a boss, but might also be, say, a pulley wheel where the rope changed direction to the clapper or hammer. A little visual geometry might come up with the height above the arch of, say, an earlier boss or pulley location. Is there a correlation between the number of groups of grooves and the number of bells known to be in the church at different times?

John, the matter of prejudice against frame-chiming has been around for 120+ years and is unabated. A tower in Essex where frae-chiming has been keeping bells sounding during a dearth of FC ringers is a case in point. The local chimer has, for a number of years, chimed carols etc during the Christmas festive season. Recent recruitment has built up the home FC band and the chimer's services "are no longer required". The fact that the resurgence of FC ringing doesn't supply ringers for all services means that there is still plenty of opportunity for the bells to be frame-chimed, but the irrational prejudice of the ringers carries greater weight than long-standing tradition.

I agree. However, RW can publish a little on any topic, but where, other than here, can small voices be "heard" even if CC isn't "listening"?

Jason,

this thread is getting way off the point of the original posers. ANY way of getting people interested enough to start sounding tower bells is an entre to eventual full-circle ringing.

Questioning the success rate of any one element of the many recruitment routes is just a symptom of the range of problems existing in "ringing" today.

I doubt anyone has a handle on how many people have got into FCR from chiming or handbell ringing or chime bars or whacking tin cans with a stick, but then, non-one knows how many people are joining FC bands by ANY route, or how many are leaving the exercise and why.

The place of chiming in the history of tower bells is indisputable, but it is constantly rubbished by the dyed-in-the-wool conservatives who "defend" the inner sancta of FCR.

Anyone that truly has an open mind should be asking loudly, "why isn't CC opening its arms to all tower bell towers?" This is the C21st!

Graham, you pose some interesting questions, but this discussion theme isn't a suitable place to expand. Ringing World printed some of my thoughts in 19/5/17(p.503) re CRAG; 24/7/20(p.731) re prejudice; and 30/10/20(p.1066) re myths about chiming. Thanks for your open mind!

First check-chimed and swing-chimed a small estate bell in late 1950s; learned the uses of the bell, including start/stop work in the fields, fire alarm, assembly, etc (can't remember them now bit I think there were 4-5. First swung-chiming of a full circle bell, (and a dip into the tower copy of RW), also in the late 1950s but after the estate bell.

Yes and Yes

Fine, I agree it's not a "major, missed source of recruitment", but to ignore it completely is STILL a missed opportunity! PAX!

I'm no expert but even I have a list of over 700 towers that chime regularly. Dove''s has improved greatly in its present incarnation but it still has only a partial picture of chiming in the UK and abroad, which will expand further as information is added. It went from 7k towers to 16k almost overnight. Yes, there is a prejudice against chiming, and it has existed since around the time CCCBR was formed and CRAG missed the opportunity to correct that for the next few generations! Anything that gets people into bell towers is an entry point to the sounding of tower bells. Anything that exposes people to the insides of belfries is an entry point into full circle ringing, even if, at a chiming tower, it is one stage removed from someone walking into a full-circle tower directly. People only get into full circle ringing if they have an interest in sounding tower bells. Ostracising chimers and their towers from recruitment initiatives continues to shoot ourselves in the foot!

John, of course I agree as regards a frame being an awkward intro to the physical side of change ringing tower bells full circle, but a frame easily allows one person to demonstrate the sequencing required in change-ringing and method-ringing in a way impossible on full circle bells without a band of helpers. In the latter example, perhaps half a dozen visitors can be enlightened, (or more in a larger tower), but in my small home Ringing Room there is space for over a dozen visitors to experience the changes and methods demonstrated by the one person in the former example. When we were full-circle ringing there was barely safe room for 6 people to sit out. If someone received=s sufficient explanation to follow, say, a blue-line diagram in the hand, they can also follow a similar crib sheet pinned up at the frame. That's how I chime methods - from crib sheets! The question posed had two main strands - how to get the public interested in sounding bells, and how to get them ringing full circle. We need to introduce people to bell ringing by any practicable route, and the on-going dismissal of frame chiming turns a blind eye to the opportunity offered by many hundreds more towers than CCCBR seems minded to utilise for recruitment.

I wasn't meaning chiming with wheels. Actually, there are hundreds of towers where bells are chimed from a frame, whether or not the tower also rings full circle. A visiting full circle ringer to my home tower chimed Plain Bob Doubles from memory so why is there a general perception that frame chiming doesn't include methods and call changes from full circle ringing?

Its true that I'm barely able to get up the tower these days but it has been my habit to chime minimus methods. I aspire to eventually chime methods on more of "my" available bells. Chorley, Lancs, introduces about 10 students per year to tower bells through frame chiming and even Dove's Guide has now included a few thousand additional towers where chiming is the norm. Chiming is a part of our bells' heritage, albeit the poor relation.

Sure, full circle ringing is the pinacle, but chiming saves many rings from oblivion. If there was ever a suitable method of sounding bells by the masses, that doesn't entail weeks of training, frame-chiming is it.

Every "happy couple" for whom I've chimed my home tower's bells has visited the tower beforehand, had a guided tour and explanations through the belfry, had an opportunity to get up-close-and-personal with the bells, and has gone away happy, having learned to chime "Abide With Me", "Here Comes the Bride" and Rounds & Queens etc on the eight.

All that from a 1 1/2 to 2hr visit.

Don't forget that many people are first exposed to the sounding of tower bells at towers where the bells are chimed, (either currently or permanently). Chiming methods is feasible for many learners after some appropriate instruction and practice. From there to learning to ring full-circle at another tower is a surprisingly small step.

The "Manual of Belfry Maintenance" was in the process of a major review and update but, I think, the only revised version in print has only some bits about the changed Faculty rules. There was discussion as to what would be the best format for the revised MoBM and I understood at the time that the practicalities of basing it online were potentially beyond CCCBR's capacity. "Belfry Upkeep" is an excellent summary of what belfries contain and what needs to be done to keep things functioning, and the compilers are to be commended.

However, it is patently NOT an online edition of the MoBM,

If BU, as it stands, is just the base for an eventually to be much expanded online resource on a par with the intended revised MoBM then that will be a tremendous achievement and well worth the wait. However, if it is not intended to transfer the updated draft content of the MoBM, albeit in modified format, then all the fine work on the latter will have been abortive and BU will never achieve it's true potential.

I have both MoBM and BU in my home tower. I've yet to decide which is more useful - my money is on MoBM.

"Hard hats" (builders' helmets) must be dated as they have an expiry date based upon the date of manufacture. Time-expired helmets ought not to be used on building sites but, like many things, they still have a little useful life remaining. The contractor who worked on my home tower had a small stock of helmets that were required wearing for visitors. When the works were finished, the builder kindly donated those helmets to the tower. In this instance the helmets had years before expiry. A minor task for the Steeple Keeper is to bear that date in mind. In view of the very limited exposure to UV and hardy any impacts, those helmets are likely to offer protection for many years to come. Rule of thumb - touch your toes with your head protection on - if it falls off, it isn't properly fitted. Soft bump caps to industry standards can be obtained from stores such as ScrewFix, Machine Mart etc and are usually available online for delivery.

Rank & file ringers' engagement with CCCBR fluctuates for a multitude of reasons and their individual perceptions of it must fluctuate also.

I've had some highly satisfactory dealings with individuals on different workgroups etc but also some disappointing ones as well. I suspect that the reps of the County Associations, Guilds etc have similar experiences during their working with the CCCBR. Perhaps the problem lies with the quality and depth of the information that gets transmitted from the Guilds etc to their members.

Much of the CCCBR's work would not concern me beyond the fact of knowing that someone, somewhere has a firm hand on each issue. But my opinions on some issues are skewed by lack of knowledge, and hence lack of full understanding, and that nurtures criticism. I laud the work of my County Association, but they are also effectively the gatekeepers for the normal information flow both between myself and the CCCBR.

I suspect that there are times that I only become aware of something that concerns me by catching a comment in the Ringing World or the Presidential Blog. Is there not some way of increasing the amount of information about the CCCBR's work that gets published, and providing it in, say a monthly summary on the website - a position statement, if you will?

Feedback is a two-way street that defeats criticisms such as those discussed on this Forum.